BEW what color is he hiding?

[FluffleFarm]

So I have an unpapered BEW Holland lop.
I bred him to an orange VM doe. They gave me 3 BEW (one had grey-ish blue eyes not clear blue) and an opal? Or blue Vm (I’m leaning opal)…

so my question is how’d I get an opal/blue?
Photos are of two of their kids.

Is that on dads side? Moms side isn’t showing either of those colors directly. Chestnut, harlequin, magpies, tri colors, black torts, torts, frosted pearl black, sable chin, blue magpie, black…

Is there a way to figure out what he’s hiding under his BEW?

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Do you not have their pedigrees?

 

[FluffleFarm]

Do you not have their pedigrees?

I have the moms, I listed out above what all was in her pedigree, but no the dad didn’t have a pedigree.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Maybe its just me, but I find it a little strange that you're breeding a Vianne

 

[hotzcatz]

The offspring - if it's the one in the picture, looks to be a VM blue. No agouti markings around the eyes or in the ears. Which means the BEW sire carries the recessive for dilutes (d), but, IMHO, there's not enough information to actually determine his color.

 

[FluffleFarm]

The offspring - if it's the one in the picture, looks to be a VM blue. No agouti markings around the eyes or in the ears. Which means the BEW sire carries the recessive for dilutes (d), but, IMHO, there's not enough information to actually determine his color.

Thanks! That’s what I was wondering. I knew it was a mixed bag with him but I have to start somewhere to get his line eventually pedigreed. thanks! I’ve kept back his son for a grow out. He has promising ears and head shape.

Oh! So the blue’s grandpa is a chestnut… that’s why I was curious if it had a potential to be opal. Since it was in the line.

 

[FluffleFarm]

Maybe its just me, but I find it a little strange that you're breeding a Vianne

Why? That’s how you get Blue Eyed Whites and thats how you have Vienna mark program.

having a blue eyed white with no pedigree means I have to breed for several of his line to have enough information to get a pedigree.

Also it’s marked on all pedigrees I’ve received and on my templates moving forward (VC or vm and BEWs would be implied vc/vm)

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Why? That’s how you get Blue Eyed Whites and thats how you have Vienna mark program.

having a blue eyed white with no pedigree means I have to breed for several of his line to have enough information to get a pedigree.

Also it’s marked on all pedigrees I’ve received and on my templates moving forward (VC or vm and BEWs would be implied vc/vm)

Ok

 

[northernnevadahollandlops]

Your blue looks shaded to me. Could he have the c(chl) gene?

 

[FluffleFarm]

Maternal great grandparents and pathernal great great grandparents on moms side is chinchilla and sable chinchilla… so maybe?

 

[ladysown]

That is an opal. Mom is a chestnut. Opal is an agouti colour. So someone is carrying dilute and that's how you got Opal.

 

[FluffleFarm]

That is an opal. Mom is a chestnut. Opal is an agouti colour. So someone is carrying dilute and that's how you got Opal.

Mom’s dad is a chestnut. Moms mom is a orange black harlequin, and mom is an orange vm.

I thought she looked more opal than blue. Her hairs aren’t blue all the way down.
So either someone on moms or dads has dilute.

Maybe over time I can figure out some of what dads hiding by his kid colors haha.

 

[FluffleFarm]

The offspring - if it's the one in the picture, looks to be a VM blue. No agouti markings around the eyes or in the ears. Which means the BEW sire carries the recessive for dilutes (d), but, IMHO, there's not enough information to actually determine his color.

I went back through photos are agouti in ears is white right? I added some more photos I took of that baby.

 

[Alaska Satin]

From those new photos I'd call it opal. There is a hint of fawn at the jawline and cheeks, a definite fawn triangle at the base of the skull/neck, and it's hard to tell from the angle of the photos but it looks like there may be fawn edging on the ears as well. Appears to be some ring development in the fur, too. I've found that ring development comes out in fits and starts in juniors (at least in Satins and Mini Rex). Usually I find the early rings most evident midway down the flanks and on the lower hips... it can take months for the real ring color to show up over the back. Eyerings may or may not be there, sometimes they can be so small as to be nearly invisible. This is the case in both agoutis and tans/otters. Finally, it looks like the baby has a completely white belly, which is not generally a result of vienna marking, which eliminates the possibility of blue, which is a self.
Incidentally, orange *IS* an agouti color: it's basically a chestnut with two non-extension genes <ee> suppressing the black ticking. Those non-extension genes came down to her from the torts and frosted pearl. And if mom had a blue magpie in her pedigree, that would be the source of the dilute. If you got an opal out of her and a BEW, that means both the doe and the BEW buck must carry dilute (<d> for blue/opal) but you can't tell whether the buck carries agouti or not (since the doe has at least one copy of dominant agouti <A>). So really all you can tell so far is the he carries at least on copy of <d> and two copies of <vv>!