Anyone who has been feeling safe about natural feeding...

[MaggieJ]

Anyone who has been feeling safe about natural feeding as opposed to feeding commercial pellets needs to be aware that there is still the potential for bad feed.

I was browsing on Homesteading Today just now and found a heartbreaking thread about a goat owner who is struggling with the devastating effects of poisoning in her herd... as a result of feeding some organic alfalfa hay.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/goats/ ... rayer.html

It can happen to any of us.

 

[akane]

I got some dirty bales of straw that eventually molded off the organic land of the guy I get my organic clover hay from. I had to haul half last winter's straw back to him. It was worse than the dusty, musty smelling stuff we got the year before. Good straw is hard to find here. Good alfalfa piece of cake, $2.50 will get you a bale of certified weed free kept indoors, but good straw that isn't dirt and mold is quite difficult. This fall I might try the wheat straw I've seen advertised by a few people instead of the oat straw.

 

[hoodat]

Do you know if the problem was mold or perhaps some insecticide or fungicide that was sprayed before the hay was cut?

 

[MaggieJ]

I've been watching the thread but so far they don't know what caused the problem. They are having the hay analyzed, I think. It should not have been insecticide of fungicide, since it was organic hay. Apparently there was substantial red clover in with the alfalfa and there can be problems with red clover under certain circumstances, from what I have heard.

 

[hoodat]

I've heard that a mold can form on the dead leaves at the lower end of red clover that is harmful but I've never had trouble with it. I just never cut mine at the ground. You're pretty safe if you cut it above three or four inches above the ground where it is all green and it recovers faster that way. Of course what is harmless to rabbits could be bad for goats and vice versa.

 

[akane]

If you cut red clover wet it will grow fungus.

 

[MaggieJ]

Thanks, Akane. I knew there could be an issue with red clover but could not remember why. I wonder it that was what poisoned the goats.

 

[AnnClaire]

Actually, if you cut any feed wet, and don't dry it properly, you stand the chance of causing fungal/mold growth that is deadly to livestock ... another reason to get to know your producer personally if at all possible. This is also why dealing with a feed store can be the best way to go as they will not accept questionable hay ... but if it is in the center of a bale, not a good chance to see it before problems start.

 

[SMR]

Feed stores will buy hay that can be moldy just like any one else, its not a guarantee of good hay by buying through a store. I know some are picky but I've seen molded bales sold many times in several stores that were molded on the outside and easily seen. I'd be more worried to buy through a store then a farmer, with a store there is no way to know if any thing was spilled on a portion of it (or a bale that it was setting below and it seemed into the others below) or put on top of it that could cause harm by an unknowing worker for instance.

 

[akane]

Actually most feed stores I know accept much more questionable hay than many good farmers I know. If they have any pride in the livestock they produce they'll have good hay to go with them. A lot of feed store workers and even managers just take what they are given from a big producer.

Actually, if you cut any feed wet, and don't dry it properly, you stand the chance of causing fungal/mold growth that is deadly to livestoc

Except with red clover it doesn't matter if you dry it properly. It will grow a toxic fungus about as fast as it hits the ground. Usually the fungus has already started just with some dew on it before cutting. It's also like corn where it's pretty much invisible. There's a reason red clover isn't used for hay often. It's tricky stuff in some areas of the country.

 

[hoodat]

If you cut red clover wet it will grow fungus.

I never store mine unless I am cutting it to dry as hay. My rabbits get it within minutes of the cutting.

 

[DanaYares]

I was harvesting greens yesterday and found LOTS of mushrooms growing in them... Has anyone ever had problems with their animals eating hidden shrooms?

 

[MaggieJ]

The mushrooms are out there, of course, but I've never picked any inadvertently. I tend to pick stems only a few at a time, so I am sure of what I am getting... especially with low-growing plants. You want to be really careful... so many mushrooms are toxic.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Dana,

we had a pet mini-rex that was kept in a 4' x 7' foot pen on the ground under some oak trees, and one morning I found her dead. I noticed 3 or 4 stems with the caps missing of these tiny mushrooms (the head is about 1/2 the size or less in diameter compared to a dime). I have no idea what type they were, but I would recognize them if I saw them again, and I will photograph them when I do so I can post them here. Obviously they were highly toxic, and our domestic rabbits don't always recognize dangerous plants, so I would skip feeding any greens contaminated by wild mushrooms.

 

[ottersatin]

Rabbits do not know what is safe and what is NOT!
They are in your charge and depend on you to make those decisions.
As always, JMPO!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Hoping13]

We have a raised bed we use for growing our winter/spring salad greens. More than enough to share with the bunnies. We also have a lot of clover that is easily picked. I hope to be able to get these rabbits over to a mostly if not completely natural feeding system.

We are very picky about the hay we buy for our goats (and now bunnies). There is one organic hay grower here, and his hay is subpar. He may have the certification, but I don't think he has a clue what he's doing. It's weedy, stemmy, and poorly baled (banana bales that break, bales only half the weight of a normal bale of hay). We are working on getting a few of our own acres moved over to hay, so we can produce our own. Saves us money, and gives us better control.

 

[MaggieJ]

There was an update on the hay analysis that made the goats sick. Here's the link:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/goats/ ... s-hay.html

 

[akane]

Clover heads dry brownish black but not all of the clover should be black. This is our clover hay

That's not even the good leafy stuff but 3rd cut with more stems where some of the older stems have gone brown but the younger stuff which is when it should be cut is not brown. Nearly all the stems are green. The guy we get our organic clover hay from is destroying his entire first cut because of the risks involved due to the frosts we've had. He won't in good conscience attempt to cut it and is having the cattle graze it off before it goes bad. I did mention clover hay is tricky stuff to play with and you can't see the mold that makes aflatoxins. You can see that there is damage to the hay or it wasn't cut at the right time (older clover might turn brown easier) or cured right but you can't see the mold except for some of them under black light. Same problem on corn. It's not a visible mold. Even if it's normal for your hay to turn brown/black due to cutting details you won't know if this time it grew mold or not. That's why older clover = bad, damp clover = toxic even if you dry it properly soon after, frostbit clover = potentially toxic.

Now if you can get it right clover makes a great hay addition and ups the protein potentially over 20%. It just requires a knowledgeable person to handle it and the reason we wiped it out of our field. My mom and grandpa are horrible hay field managers and would probably kill the herd off if we let the clover grow. As is I won't use the stuff off our own land for the rabbits since it takes so little of something bad to poison them. Too many people also try to drag out cuttings to get more hay instead of cutting young to get better hay.