Amer Chinchilla & Satin

[Green2Rabbits]

American Chinchilla buck with a female Black (with some silver specks) how do you think the babies hides will look?

The A Chinchilla will have that tricolor gray look and the older my black satin gets the more bits of silver she gets so I think it will a good solid hide color.

Going to do it in a few months when my A. Chinchilla is old enough.

Any idea if it's a good color match combo? I just don't want spots since I want to try and save the fur after freezer camp.
Thanks!

 

[hotzcatz]

Chinchilla is a color determined by the 'C' gene. It's not the dominant "C" for Color (as opposed to the double recessive 'cc' for albino) but several levels down from being dominant. The 'C' gene is a bit complicated, it's the dominant C, then Chinchilla Dark, Chinchilla Light, Himilayan, then Albino, I think, in levels of dominance.

The color genetics on your Chinchilla should be: (cchd=Dark Chinchilla) A_ B_ cchd_ D_ E_. The 'A' is the agouti color pattern. White around the eyes, in the ears and the undercarriage. A double recessive 'aa' is for solid colors. The dominant 'B' is for Black when it is dominant or brown (chocolate) when it's a double recessive (bb). Then there is the complicated 'C' gene and your rabbit has the 'cch' for Dark Chinchilla. There could still be a recessive for light chinchilla, himilayan or albino hiding behind the dark chinchilla gene. The 'D' is for Dense color when it's dominant or with a double recessive (dd) the dilute colors. The 'E' gene when it's a double recessive 'ee' creates torts if it's a bunny with the 'aa' for solid colors and fawns if it has the dominant 'A' for agouti pattern.

With your black, the color genetics for that is a double recessive 'aa' for the solid color pattern and then dominants all the rest of the way. 'aa B_ C_ D_ E_'.

The blank underlines means there could be another dominant gene in that space or it could be a recessive gene in that space, you won't know unless one of the parents had a color that required a double recessive (chocolate, albino, blue, tort, etc.). Then you'd know that their offspring has to have a recessive for that color.

So, 'A_B_cchd_D_E_' from your chinchilla plus 'aa B_C_D_E' from your black could come up with almost anything since there's so many places that recessives could be hiding. Also, we don't know what those specks on the black are all about. Silvering gene? Vienna?

If you want a solid hide color - solid black - and if your Chinchilla doesn't have a solid colored parent or some solid colored ancestor (i.e. he has two dominant 'A' genes - 'AA'), all you are going to get from him is more agouti color patterns and no solid colors. Since Chinchilla is an agouti color pattern color (that dominant 'A'), if your chinchilla has two dominant 'A' genes, then a dominant 'A' is all they can give to their offspring. Which means ALL their offspring will have the agouti pattern and no blacks at all. However, if bred to a black, all the offspring will have 'Aa' and the ability to sire solid colors. If you get any solid colors from this breeding, then you will know that your Chinchilla buck has 'Aa'.

 

[Green2Rabbits]

Chinchilla is a color determined by the 'C' gene. It's not the dominant "C" for Color (as opposed to the double recessive 'cc' for albino) but several levels down from being dominant. The 'C' gene is a bit complicated, it's the dominant C, then Chinchilla Dark, Chinchilla Light, Himilayan, then Albino, I think, in levels of dominance.

The color genetics on your Chinchilla should be: (cchd=Dark Chinchilla) A_ B_ cchd_ D_ E_. The 'A' is the agouti color pattern. White around the eyes, in the ears and the undercarriage. A double recessive 'aa' is for solid colors. The dominant 'B' is for Black when it is dominant or brown (chocolate) when it's a double recessive (bb). Then there is the complicated 'C' gene and your rabbit has the 'cch' for Dark Chinchilla. There could still be a recessive for light chinchilla, himilayan or albino hiding behind the dark chinchilla gene. The 'D' is for Dense color when it's dominant or with a double recessive (dd) the dilute colors. The 'E' gene when it's a double recessive 'ee' creates torts if it's a bunny with the 'aa' for solid colors and fawns if it has the dominant 'A' for agouti pattern.

With your black, the color genetics for that is a double recessive 'aa' for the solid color pattern and then dominants all the rest of the way. 'aa B_ C_ D_ E_'.

The blank underlines means there could be another dominant gene in that space or it could be a recessive gene in that space, you won't know unless one of the parents had a color that required a double recessive (chocolate, albino, blue, tort, etc.). Then you'd know that their offspring has to have a recessive for that color.

So, 'A_B_cchd_D_E_' from your chinchilla plus 'aa B_C_D_E' from your black could come up with almost anything since there's so many places that recessives could be hiding. Also, we don't know what those specks on the black are all about. Silvering gene? Vienna?

If you want a solid hide color - solid black - and if your Chinchilla doesn't have a solid colored parent or some solid colored ancestor (i.e. he has two dominant 'A' genes - 'AA'), all you are going to get from him is more agouti color patterns and no solid colors. Since Chinchilla is an agouti color pattern color (that dominant 'A'), if your chinchilla has two dominant 'A' genes, then a dominant 'A' is all they can give to their offspring. Which means ALL their offspring will have the agouti pattern and no blacks at all. However, if bred to a black, all the offspring will have 'Aa' and the ability to sire solid colors. If you get any solid colors from this breeding, then you will know that your Chinchilla buck has 'Aa'.

Wow that was a solid explanation thanks.
Yeah and this buck (American Chinchilla) is pretty light in color compared to what I was hoping for.
I really don't mind as long as its uniform. If the kits aren't black that's okay as long as their not splotched. I know there is a lot of unknowns but theoretically could I get kits that are like the buck but have patches of dark black like the doe!? :x

For a 1st litter beggars can't be choosers so I will take what I can get and be glad if they are healthy. It would be cool if whatever color patter it is its uniform from neck to rump.....even if the siblings are a different shade.
The patches would really be disappointing.

I really should have took that biology class after all! :lol:
Thanks!

 

[hotzcatz]

Is there a picture of the black doe? Sometimes with black rabbits, when they molt they get big white patches on them even though they are a black rabbit. I've heard it's temperature related.

This is Zephyr, technically he's a 'black' buck but once when he was sheared his new wool came out with these big white patches all over. The next time he molted, he went back to solid black. I'm still not sure what they do this, especially since the temperatures around here don't actually change that much.

 

[Green2Rabbits]

Is there a picture of the black doe? Sometimes with black rabbits, when they molt they get big white patches on them even though they are a black rabbit. I've heard it's temperature related.

This is Zephyr, technically he's a 'black' buck but once when he was sheared his new wool came out with these big white patches all over. The next time he molted, he went back to solid black. I'm still not sure what they do this, especially since the temperatures around here don't actually change that much.

Oh man that's my biggest fear besides health. No on my phone it is goofy and I haven't figured out how to make an image work. I don't have any laptop or anything. Although......I could take some pics make a Craigslist add put a crazy high amount on it then send you the link. Craigslist is super easy to post cellphone pics on......I might do that seriously.

How many times can they molt before freezer camp in 8-10 weeks? Being in WI it goes from low of maybe -20f to a couple days in the low 100s.
I guess I should read up on molts. <br /><br /> __________ Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:34 pm __________ <br /><br />

Is there a picture of the black doe?

I created a page and once it posts I will post the link. The pics a a week or two old but my Satin doe didn't change much since she is now pushing 6 months old.

Link coming soon

 

[hotzcatz]

I'd not expect any molting in 8 to 10 weeks. Isn't molting usually a once a year thing? Or in some angora lines it can be about every three months or so. But you're doing meat rabbits who don't have any angora genes?

You can induce a molt if you switch to a significantly richer feed. Which means if you're getting your angoras ready for a show, don't start feeding them extra rich feed several weeks before the show or they will all blow their coats.

 

[Green2Rabbits]

I'd not expect any molting in 8 to 10 weeks. Isn't molting usually a once a year thing? Or in some angora lines it can be about every three months or so. But you're doing meat rabbits who don't have any angora genes?

You can induce a molt if you switch to a significantly richer feed. Which means if you're getting your angoras ready for a show, don't start feeding them extra rich feed several weeks before the show or they will all blow their coats.

Good to know I probably should start feeding my American Chinchilla more BOSS then. I have pretty much made up my mind on sending him to freezer camp instead of being a stud since his chronic sneeze.

Not sure how to end this thread but I won't be mixing him and my black satin to prevent having babies with that sneeze. Still trying to feed him oats lots of food and natural supplements in his water but no change. He is "healthy" but always sneezes a couple times a min.

I may try to have him molt once before freezer camp so his hide is nicer. Being warm out a prime winter hide is out of the question.

I'm going to take my doe (black satin) back to her original owner to get stud service and also buy a new Zealand. The color pattern of the futer kits is up in the air but I need to start to breed and get some return on my work. Plus my satin isn't a young pup going on almost 7 months old never been breed.

If I would butcher my buck within 3 weeks would it be beneficial to cause a molt starting now or won't it make much of a difference since he will only be around 10 weeks at butcher?

No it's not that breed. I think I was thinking of wild animals that molt in the winter and thinking of it like getting a winter coat. That makes sense once a year only for my type of rabbit.