All 7 Kits Died

[evankliewer]

My larger dwarf mix doe had a litter of 7 about three weeks ago and they were just starting to eat food. A few days ago, they were attempting to eat carrots and hay. Yesterday, I saw 2 of them acting strangely. They both were laying on their sides and rolling around a little. One of them managed to get to its feet and went to the corner of the cage, but eventually laid back down. It acted as if it had broken a couple broken limbs and couldn't get back up again. Its frequency of movement went down, as well as its breathing, until it stopped altogether. The exact same thing happened about 3 hours later and when I woke up the next day, yet another set of 2 was lying dead in the cage. I was left with one more until I took a nap and found the last one dead. All 7 kits died and I'm not exactly sure what happened.

I was told that the buck and the doe were originally from the same litter, but their babies seemed completely healthy until now. It's possible that the doe broke their limbs because she was really careless about where she was stepping. I examined one after it died and it seemed like its shoulders had been dislocated, but I guess I can't be completely sure. I examined another, who didn't seem to have the same problem. Anyway, I'm at a loss for an explanation. I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar situation happen in their rabbitry and may have an explanation as to what happened.

 

[ladysown]

a toxin in the hay perhaps??

 

[MaggieJ]

How sad to lose them and how frustrating not to know why!

I think I would have opened a couple of them up to see if there were possible injuries from the doe and also to look at their organs to see if there were obvious signs of illness.

What foods did they have access to? Normally kits will adapt to whatever you are feeding the doe, but it might be a good idea to take a closer look at the feed.

 

[Dood]

Rabbits shoulders are held on by muscles alone and they don't have a ball and socket like humans so it is impossible to dislocate them.

Most rabbit deaths are due to complications around weaning time and it sounds like poisoning from bacteria to me. Clostridium spiroforme can kill a rabbit within 24 hours and before there is diahhrea present.

A few days ago, they were attempting to eat carrots and hay

I am not sure what type of hay it was or how gradual you were adding these new foods and if they gorged on either it could cause an imbalance in their cecum and a bloom of "bad" bacteria (E. coli sp., Clostridium sp.) who's byproducts of starch digestion are toxins.

Certain types/species of hays are more prone to mycotoxins (fungal toxins) that can also cause the symptoms you describe. Rabbits are very sensitive to these partly because of their small size and since a horse, cow, goat or sheep can tolerate higher doses the bad batches can go unnoticed.

 

[MaggieJ]

Those are valid points, Dood, but it should be noted that these kits were just three weeks old, beginning to nibble on mom's food. Unless there was a problem with the feed, this should not have killed them. It was not a sudden change in feed (or so it seems to me) but rather the normal introductory steps of a slow and natural transition from nursing to solid foods.

At this point, it is beginning to look to me like a toxin of some sort.

 

[evankliewer]

Maggie, I still have the bodies of them all in plastic bags. I could still open them up, but I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to look for, seeing that this is my first litter and if never done anything like this before. I was feeding the doe strictly hay and carrots and they had no feed from a bag. I do feel like this was a normal transition I to normal food, but I guess I can't be completely sure because, like I've said, this is the first litter my rabbits have birthed.

Dood, I just fed the doe normally (hay and carrots) and I relied on them all to either feed from her nipples or eat the food I gave the doe. I didn't think much of it and thought that's be pretty normal. I've been feeding her Timothy hay for months with a large box I bought 2 or 3 months ago.

So if this was a toxin in the hay, what should I do for next time? <br /><br /> -- Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:33 pm -- <br /><br /> My mom theorized dehydration, which isn't too far-fetched. I saw a few of them jumping in the water bowl to get water, so I raised the bowl so they couldn't jump in and get water because they were making the entire cage too wet. I assumed that they would get their nutrients from the doe. This would explain all of them dying at same time

At the same time, it wasn't a very long time (maybe an hour or two) between moving the bowl and the first death, so dehydration doesn't seem completely sound.

 

[MaggieJ]

I don't want to be harsh, but a diet of timothy hay and carrots is not adequate for rabbits - particularly not does and growing kits. Timothy hay is approximately 8-10 % protein and carrots are about 5%. Rabbits, especially working does and growing kits, need at least 16% protein for good health.

I don't know if the losses are due to this diet or not, but I urge you to educate yourself about rabbit nutritional needs. If you don't want to feed a commercial pellet, there are alternatives... You'll find all the information you need in the Natural Feeding for Rabbits forum. I hope you find it helpful!

 

[evankliewer]

Oh, I had no idea. Thank you. I'll check out the forum now. <br /><br /> -- Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:36 pm -- <br /><br /> As I'm doing that, do you have any suggestions for a good source of protein?

 

[MaggieJ]

Alfalfa hay has excellent protein content - 16-18%. Clover hay is also high in protein. Some plant materials - willow, mulberry etc. - are also adequate.

I have fed rabbits for years on a diet of free-choice alfalfa hay (80% alfalfa/20% grasses), small quantities of grain (usually wheat, about 12%) and as many safe fresh foods as the season permits.

The best fresh foods are the kind found in our Safe Plants for Rabbits sticky. Most of these are the plants that have nourished wild European rabbits (from which our domestic rabbits are descended) since the end of the last Ice Age.
safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html

Sprouted grains and grain grasses (commonly referred to as fodder) are also excellent for providing higher protein for naturally fed rabbits.
fodder-sprouting-systems-anyone-t10317.html

Rabbits on a natural diet also need a trace mineral salt block. Rabbits on commercial pellets get minerals added to the pellets, but those on natural feed need the blocks. I use the reddish-brown ones for general livestock, but you can also use the ones intended for goats. They are not expensive. A four pound block costs only a couple of dollars and goes a long way. You can knock chunks off the larger block with a hammer and serve them in small crocks to protect the cage wire from rusting.

As a stop-gap, until you can work out a new feeding plan, I suggest you go to a feed store and buy a bag of alfalfa cubes. They are usually intended for horses. They will help boost the protein until you can get things worked out. Feed them in addition to the timothy hay and carrots, adding them slowly so as not to shock the rabbits systems. All changes to rabbit diets must be made slowly to avoid problems.

Welcome to the fun and challenges of natural feeding! Once you get a bit of experience with it, I think you will be pleased with the results. I'll be glad to answer any questions you have here on RabbitTalk, as will other members familiar with natural feeding.