Aggressive Doe Attacks.

[ButtonsPalace]

I was gonna type out some long story thing. But it's annoying me. So here's what has apparently been happening for quite some time. I have two does sharing a cage their names are Harlem and Sugar. But Sugar ain't that sweet. Sugar has chewed my rabbits nails completely off and just left little scarred nubs *I think in total two of her nails were ok on her front feet.*I'll post pics if ya'll wanna see but it's pretty bad* Not to mention that Sugar pulled out most of Harlem's fur and hasn't been allowing her to eat. I noticed she was a bit skinnier but I figured maybe it was because she was loosing her winter coat *She has a BUNCH of fur pulled and it looked to me like she was shedding so I didn't really look into it* I actually found out all this happened when I went out to bring her in along with the rest *1 bun at a time* to cut their nails *They are on wire but their nails are sharp!* So I brought in Sugar everything was fine then I went out for Harlem and I guess by chance the way I was holding her I didn't feel the scabs all over her lower back and knees. Honestly all I had seen was her one nail that had been bit into obviously from the noticeable bite mark and nail completely dangling. Once I brought her in I seen just how bad it really was and I was absolutely raging and honestly if it were up to me I'd have culled her. I planned to breed her like a week ago but something kept telling me no so I was like ok I'll wait. I'm glad I didn't breed her now even though she is pretty aggressiveness is not something I even want to chance passing on. None of my rabbits have ever been aggressive except one doe who bit a buck cause she panicked and he freaked out on her *No injuries except a broken nail.* I just I don't know what to do. My rabbit is now absolutely terrified and you can see by the look on her face. So I moved her into what used to be a bucks cage which is about 2 feet away from another buck *He is very calm and doesn't seem to phased by her presence* She seems to be settling in well now that she is away from her attacker* I'm just kinda worried if there is a chance of infection or maybe even death?

 

[Marinea]

You're going to have to get a good close look at her injuries to see if any are infected.

The aggressiveness may be that she wants to be bred. This hormonal issue is one reason why all my rabbits are in their own cage.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Well she killed a doe before or so I've been told... Do you think I should breed her? Could she possibly kill the babies? What would infection look like?

 

[MaggieJ]

You did the right thing to separate them but why on earth would you house them together if you knew she had already killed another doe? Rabbits are territorial and each one needs its own space. The damage could have been avoided if you had separated them from the beginning. It is useless to blame the rabbits for acting on the instincts with which they are born.

In a colony with loads of space, some rabbits can get along and enjoy each other's company, but they need to be able to get away from each other too. Putting two rabbits in one cage is asking for trouble, especially if they have not grown up together.

Not too many of us will keep a rabbit that is frequently aggressive. If she's not good breeding material and is attacking, it might be best to terminally cull her. If you can't do it yourself, perhaps you can find someone who cull her and use the meat.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

I didn't know she killed a doe! I swear to you I had NO idea but apparently her owners did and they very politely told me so today! <br /><br /> -- Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:34 pm -- <br /><br /> I had no idea she's killed a rabbit apparently it was a Netherland Dwarf Doe... She killed and apparently left the mutilated body in the box they shared. I wish I would've known she was aggressive and honestly I've been fighting to keep from mashing her brains in on the concrete outside but it's not my rabbit it belongs to the little girl. The rabbit better be glad she does too. If she was mine she'd be gone.

 

[MaggieJ]

I didn't know she killed a doe! I swear to you I had NO idea but apparently her owners did and they very politely told me so today!

-- Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:34 pm --

I had no idea she's killed a rabbit apparently it was a Netherland Dwarf Doe... She killed and apparently left the mutilated body in the box they shared. I wish I would've known she was aggressive and honestly I've been fighting to keep from mashing her brains in on the concrete outside but it's not my rabbit it belongs to the little girl. The rabbit better be glad she does too. If she was mine she'd be gone.

Calm down! I did not understand that you just found that out today. Buttons, you are too angry right now to make any decisions. (Anyone who even feels like mashing an animal's brain on concrete needs to take some deep breaths and STOP until more under control.) Keep the doe separate and let a little time go by before you make any decisions.

If the rabbit belongs to a nine-year-old, why are you having to deal with it? Could you (calmly) explain a bit more so we can (I hope) help you to resolve this?

 

[ButtonsPalace]

I'm not angry I'm fine. I'm just saying that is how I felt towards her at the moment.. I know it's a bit much but I was very angry at the time. Now what happened is I moved out of my moms house *I've had a not so great childhood* So now I live in a house with my boyfriend and his parents/2 younger brothers. Now a friend of my boyfriends family is also living in the house. We have a total of 9 people living here with about 10 dogs and 6-8 cats not including all the farm animals. I have 11 rabbits now *I will have more though* So the rabbit that attacked mine belongs to the other families little girl. All the rest of the 10 are mine. I'll post pics of the bites and such tomorrow so everyone can see if it's showing signs of infection cause I don't want to rely on only my judgement after stupidly leaving her in there with a rabbit that was trying to kill her for so long. She has lost a BUNCH of weight and looks drastically smaller after I calmed down and re-examined her. It looks rough she is covered in bite mark scabs. I'd cull the rabbit if it were left up to me *Not in any cruel manner of course* But she isn't mine so sadly I'm stuck with her occupying a cage that could be used for something better. Apparently the other family is thinking about moving out and thank god they are I'll be glad when she is gone. In my opinion a unbreedable aggressive rabbit isn't worth wasting feed on. *All my does/bucks are considered pets and all I am keeping will be pets not food. Ones not intended to be kept will be sold or ate.* I hope this helps explain. If it don't lemme know what parts I'm leaving out *I'm really tired and have had cramps all day long today if that says anything about my anger. I woke up to cramps and nausea and it's been a looooonnngggg day*

 

[MaggieJ]

(((HUGS)))

Go and get some sleep. :zzz:

Now that your own doe is safe, there is nothing that cannot wait until the morning. I do feel for you and I hope your situation improves soon. I'll help if I can.

 

[macksmom98]

Sounds like a long day. I am sorry that no one told you how aggressive she was beforehand. To be honest, it does not sound like a good situation for that many animals. I say this out of kindness for all involved, but if I was in your position I would adopt or foster some out. I know it's probably just temporary and you all are trying to make it work for a little while, and I don't know the exact amount of space you have there, but I am guessing that's why you had these two does together,
due to lack of room. I am sure you will get to a point where you and your boyfriend can have your own place, and make it a goal to have the set up that you want. But this is a lot to care for. If it was me I would save my $$$$ and make some goals for the future, and downsize what I could, even though I am sure you are attached. When this many animals live together (and are not used to each other but brought together by these circumstances) there is no telling what else will happen. Get some rest and start fresh in the morning

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Originally yes. They were together from lack of room. But I have one empty huge hutch with no occupants in it still and the only reason Harlem *The doe who was attacked* is alone is cause her mom and grandma are both pregnant right now. I wasn't planning on this all happening but its ok because we still have a WAY oversized cage and I have enough space if need be to move critters around. If I have too I'll drag the over turned kiddie pool in the yard *Not sure why it's overturned but yup* and I'll put some equine pine down in it and then put growouts in it. I have space that's not an issue. I just thought they were like best buds cause they would groom each other and such...

 

[akane]

I wouldn't call a rabbit aggressive or cull for it if they don't get along with another doe in a cage. I'd debate culling if they didn't get along in a large colony but it would depend on my plans for that rabbit's decendents. Rabbits did not evolve to share space well. Irregardless of background they should be placed together only in large spaces which for anything but the smallest breeds is not what you'd usually refer to as a cage. Even then you need to start out checking daily and then continue to check frequently for problems because it is so common. A whole heck of a lot of the rabbit population in the US would be put down if we culled for does attacking other does in even roomy cages. Even opposite genders and spayed rabbits are cautioned against as cagemates. This entire situation is not the fault of any rabbit. It is only a rabbit being a rabbit. If she hasn't attacked you and hasn't attacked a buck I wouldn't feel any ill will towards her and unless one of your goals is rabbits that can be housed together there isn't much reason to cull.

 

[Marinea]

Another thing to plan for is Harlem may not be able to be put back with her mom or grandmom after they kindle and raise their kits. Just because they were fine together before, I wouldn't count on it.

If you want a successful rabbitry, you really need to plan on each rabbit having their own cage. Add to that separate growout cages, and add to that a separate cage where you can quarantine all new buns, or sick ones. Add to that a cage where you can grow out a potential keeper, as a replacement (meaning to replace another bun when it's grown, going finally into that rabbit's cage).

In your position, with all that is going on, I would take stock of how many cages I have, use the above info, and keep the number of rabbits a plan like that allows.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

I wouldn't call a rabbit aggressive or cull for it if they don't get along with another doe in a cage. I'd debate culling if they didn't get along in a large colony but it would depend on my plans for that rabbit's decendents. Rabbits did not evolve to share space well. Irregardless of background they should be placed together only in large spaces which for anything but the smallest breeds is not what you'd usually refer to as a cage. Even then you need to start out checking daily and then continue to check frequently for problems because it is so common. A whole heck of a lot of the rabbit population in the US would be put down if we culled for does attacking other does in even roomy cages. Even opposite genders and spayed rabbits are cautioned against as cagemates. This entire situation is not the fault of any rabbit. It is only a rabbit being a rabbit. If she hasn't attacked you and hasn't attacked a buck I wouldn't feel any ill will towards her and unless one of your goals is rabbits that can be housed together there isn't much reason to cull.

The only reason I've been keeping them together is because my two oldest does prefer to be and the youngest for the first little while seemed to be ok? together but who really knows. I'm not going to cull but she will definitely be a pet until she dies never a breeder. I have a cage for each individual doe but they don't seem to like being alone *The two oldest and the momma* They seem really happy living together but I guess that the attacker prefers being alone. Which is fine that can be done. I still have two cages available right now and they are both quite spacey although I might hurt my two does feeling if their 8 foot cage got cut into a 4 foot one lol *There is a slot for an optional wood divider. So before long I'll probably split that and then I'll put buns in it. I also do not plan to keep any future kits for the time being until I have money for several more cages *Yes it's gonna suck but oh well* I do have plenty of room for all mine right now though. <br /><br /> -- Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:35 am -- <br /><br />

Another thing to plan for is Harlem may not be able to be put back with her mom or grandmom after they kindle and raise their kits. Just because they were fine together before, I wouldn't count on it.

If you want a successful rabbitry, you really need to plan on each rabbit having their own cage. Add to that separate growout cages, and add to that a separate cage where you can quarantine all new buns, or sick ones. Add to that a cage where you can grow out a potential keeper, as a replacement (meaning to replace another bun when it's grown, going finally into that rabbit's cage).

In your position, with all that is going on, I would take stock of how many cages I have, use the above info, and keep the number of rabbits a plan like that allows.

Well I'm going tomorrow for a job interview as well as my boyfriend. It pays $10 an hour so first paycheck I've already told my boyfriend will be going towards rabbit hutches. My boyfriends stepdads friend *Mouth-full huh?* works there so I have a good feeling about this plus the lady sounded pretty excited about meeting us. So I'm not too worried about cages. And if I don't get the job we have the materials here to throw a few together. It probably wouldn't be long term but I know I'll sell enough babies to make at least 2 hutches worth of materials... *I've already got like 5 or 6 people asking me to let them know when I have babies cause everyone wants rabbits*

 

[Celice]

personaly, if this was my doe and I put her in a cage with another doe and saw they were fighting (I don't have to actually see the fight and just read body language or see lots of fur everywhere) I would have separated them before or at 24hrs. This doe being aggressive about her personal space with other rabbits is not an issue that I would cull for, I personaly have many does like that which is why they are in hutches and not in the colony, and even in the colony there are spats that happen every once in a while.

But because of her stunt what I would do is separate everyone into their own pen even those other does that are getting along because once one of them has kits they will not be as friendly with each other from there on. If you want a colony style setting you are going to monitor your rabbits personalities first before putting your rabbits together, since rabbits are so picky about who they want to be friends with. The hard fact is Most rabbits of the same gender just can't get along with each other it take 2 rabbits with ether very close ties like rabbits that were raised together, or get really lucky and find 2 rabbits that just click with each others personalities. It's rare with Does and even rarer with bucks but I've had it happen.

since this is your first time with rabbits on a rabbitry-level I'd start off slow with everyone in separate cages until you get everything worked out.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Well I'm hopefully about to start a new job and plan to put at least 1 to 200 dollars into rabbit supplies. I plan to build all my hutches myself and I already know how I plan to do so but it's more of an image in my head that I have yet to sketch out so I can get an idea. I had no idea she was aggressive. I didn't see any fur laying around except for once and by then it had fell into the lower cage and I thought one of the does was pulling fur of herself *My white doe likes being a momma and she gets a bit excited sometimes and pulls a few tufts of fur out**I have watched her do this she doesn't pull out but one tuft and she'll lay it over in the corner of the cage** And she is separate she is in the smallest cage I have but she isn't that big so it's not a big deal. I still have her original cage which is much larger and sadly for her going to be used for growouts.. Um as far as culling goes I'm over it. I'm still upset that I didn't notice sooner because I talk to all my rabbits and look at them and such while I feed and water them all... I guess since she was looking thinner and the loss of fur and it's spring I just assumed she looked fatter because of her winter coat and that she was shedding. I'm not sure where all the fur went because I haven't seen it.. Had I she would've been gone a long time ago. As far as their behaviour was they were both pretty calm about being together no aggressive body stance or tense buns. Just the norm reaction for huge scary human. *My oldest gray doe was mistreated by my two younger siblings while I was living with my mom* *My white doe just doesn't like to be picked up but she is so cuddly I just love her* And then the little gray one was acting like she was wild even though I handled them like from the day they were born on.* *and the one that attacked her just sat there. Like a bun* I never thought anything was wrong. When I go out they typically run around the hutch and then plop themselves in a corner and watch me. I honestly saw no signs of aggression from either doe and just made up reasons as to what was happening.. But honestly I mean it all kinda adds up.. Especially since the other doe had looked like she lost weight. There aren't ribs showing or feelable but she's lighter to hold now. So she hasn't lost much and has been being gave daily bananas and carrots and some hay. She seems a lot more chill now.. I think she might know I'm trying to help by putting salve on her.. I don't know. The spots weren't nearly as bad as I thought but they obviously hurt and she did lightly bite me a few times to remind me it hurt so I got my boyfriend to hold her down gently so she couldn't get away *she wasn't to happy and gave him an awful look**He had his hands about midback and she was on soft towels** I'm glad I know this doe is aggressive towards other rabbits now though. It's a good future reference to myself to pay a bit more attention to things even the small things.. I completely overlooked it relating the issues to nature.. Well like I said now I know. I don't think I will have a colony. I kinda want to but if I do they will be a bunch of babies raised together from a young age and will be monitored closely for sure.I probably won't ever do a colony set up after this fiasco but that's ok it was a lesson well learned for sure.