advantage of multiple mounting of does ?

[michaels4gardens]

In another thred it was mentioned that a breeder recomended does being bred 3 times to "make sure it took" -- this got me wondering what other breeders think on this subject--
I have seen no advantage to letting the Buck mount the doe 2 or 3 times , --unless it is an unproven, or young buck, or if the Doe should pee right after breeding.
so-- what do others think??

I have seen an increase in litter size from breeding to 2 different bucks, [but have no idea why]

so-- some oppinions???

 

[ladysown]

I tend to let them mount 2-3 times simply because that's what I was taught since the first mating can clear out older sperm and the second gives fresher sperm (therefore more viable). But so does regularly using your bucks. I so suppose it depends on how often you use your bucks.

Breeding to different bucks DOES increase the amount of kits born, that I've noticed as well. Why... have no clue.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I like to have two successful attempts since, as Ladysown mentioned, the first ejaculate can have a high percentage of dead or non viable sperm. According to Rabbit Production by McNitt, et al, the second ejaculate contains by far the highest sperm count. So, I usually let the buck go twice. As to the multiple buck thing, we have a breeder here, Lisa BunnyGal, that regularly uses multiple bucks for her meat rabbits and has litters of 12-14 most of the time. So, there must be something to it, but I am not sure what EXACTLY that might be.

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat: Especially in the heat, cold or if the buck hasnt been used in over a month, multiple breedings will clear the pipes, so to speak

Also, rabbits are induced ovulators so the more stimulation the more eggs should rupture from the ovaries and hence more kits.

 

[RothsRabbits]

Also, rabbits are induced ovulators so the more stimulation the more eggs should rupture from the ovaries and hence more kits.

yes correct above

more mounts more sperm but they have to be done in a timely manner, other wise they build a sperm plug

but more mounts = bigger litters

 

[skysthelimit]

In the cold or heat or cleaning out the works, yes...

but, I have done just one time and out of impatience (or cold) took the doe out. I find my does give me the same amount of kits no matter how many times I let the buck go at it, or which buck I breed her to.

I put a doe in once, said a big opps because it was the wrong color, and got 7 kits. She was ill, lost those kits, and despite how many times the buck bred her, I never got more than 4 kits from her again.

And then the buck fell off a doe several times, and she only ever had 3-5 kits.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I like to breed my bucks 2x then give them at least 1 day off, - before I put another doe in, -- for does I just want meat kits from ,I let 2 different bucks breed them once. But i have tried to keep a record of how many x a doe was bred [mounted] by the same buck, to see if it made any difference, -- for me it seemed to make very little difference.

 

[gardenbunny]

Also, rabbits are induced ovulators so the more stimulation the more eggs should rupture from the ovaries and hence more kits.

yes correct above

more mounts more sperm but they have to be done in a timely manner, other wise they build a sperm plug

but more mounts = bigger litters

whats a sperm plug?

 

[michaels4gardens]

at the end of the bucks ejaculate, they have a fluid that goes in last, that will set up in a few min, and form a mucus like plug, to keep the rest of the sperm from running back out of the doe, the purpose is to hold the ejaculate in while the doe has time to get her eggs into the right spot and get them all fertilized, -the process {I have read} can take up to a day.
Some people are concerned when they see lumpy, thick ,mucus like clumps on the outside of the doe's vulva after breeding, this is "usually" just some of the "plug" that was left on the outside of the doe.

 

[dayna]

I have not found a difference in the amount of time a buck mounts a doe. Only a difference in the buck used.

 

[akane]

Bucks can miss. Heck even horses who fit together a bit better can miss. I had a stupid stallion decide to unmount the mare just as the ejaculate came out all over the concrete. Couldn't get him to breed again that day and she went out of heat (downside of those animals that aren't induced ovulators) shortly after requiring a month long wait and a late year foal. Foal birth time is important because for competition purposes all horses turn the next year old on Jan 1 so a foal born in Jan has the greatest advantage of maturity and training time. With rabbits I've seen the buck make a mess all over the doe's tail, leg, back in the case of my really small netherland... Then you take in to account the things that can make sperm nonviable and it makes a lot of sense to try for multiple breedings quickly. Not sure why 3 was chosen. I have given up at 2 and most of the time get babies but occasionally not.

What I do not find useful is putting a doe back in with a buck after hours or a day. If the doe was not covered at all then I will pull them out for an hour or 2 to let her think about it and put her back or try her every day until she finally breeds. I just haven't found an increase in litter size from repeated breedings after the initial round. I also have not found that the buck sets the kit number in the least. My does always had the same number of kits from any buck and the bucks threw different numbers of kits on different does. More or less breeding attempts didn't really change that.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

:yeahthat: Especially in the heat, cold or if the buck hasnt been used in over a month, multiple breedings will clear the pipes, so to speak

Also, rabbits are induced ovulators so the more stimulation the more eggs should rupture from the ovaries and hence more kits.

Wouldn't you only get a set number of eggs though? I mean, only ripe eggs are released...so if you have a couple of mountings, and all the ripe eggs are released, then more mountings isn't going to make more eggs be released.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Also, rabbits are induced ovulators so the more stimulation the more eggs should rupture from the ovaries and hence more kits.

Wouldn't you only get a set number of eggs though? I mean, only ripe eggs are released...so if you have a couple of mountings, and all the ripe eggs are released, then more mountings isn't going to make more eggs be released.

Correct, Sistah.

I explained this pretty fully in a recent post, post223088.html but have copied my answer here:

Rabbits are induced ovulators, which means that they release the eggs on stimulation from the buck. They do have cycles of receptivity as indicated by the color of the vulva. Dark pink or purple indicates that she has follicles that are ready to burst and release eggs. If she is mounted when follicles aren't ready, none will be released.

During their receptive window, there are "waves" of follicles maturing at different rates. Once a follicle reaches a certain size and is ready to rupture, but the doe is not bred, it will regress and never be viable again. At that point another "wave" of follicles will be maturing and may be ready to be released.

Breeding her to another buck will not cause release of a secondary "wave" of eggs, because they will not yet be mature.

Some people claim that does can carry two pregnancies of different gestational age, but this is not possible due to the hormonal changes that occur when eggs are released.

I'm about to get technical on you, :explanation: but am trying to keep it relatively simple, so here goes:

When the eggs are released the follicle is called a corpus hemorrhagicum, but the cells change to become a corpus luteum. The corpus luteum produces relatively high levels of progesterone and moderate levels of other hormones such as estrogen to inhibit further production of follicle stimulating hormones, preventing the growth of new follicles and release of eggs.

The corpus luteum remains in the ovary while the eggs traverse the fallopian tubes, continuing to secrete progesterone to prepare the uterus for implantation of the embryo(s). When the egg implants itself, it releases another hormone (HCG) which signals the corpus luteum to continue secreting progesterone to maintain the thick lining and increased blood vessels to the uterus to maintain growth of the embryos. Eventually, the placenta takes over and the corpus luteum degrades.

If the eggs are not fertilized and implantation fails to occur, the corpus luteum stops progesterone production and decays, allowing the receptive cycle to resume.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Also, rabbits are induced ovulators so the more stimulation the more eggs should rupture from the ovaries and hence more kits.

Wouldn't you only get a set number of eggs though? I mean, only ripe eggs are released...so if you have a couple of mountings, and all the ripe eggs are released, then more mountings isn't going to make more eggs be released.

Correct, Sistah.

I explained this pretty fully in a recent post, post223088.html but have copied my answer here:


I'm about to get technical on you, :explanation: but am trying to keep it relatively simple, so here goes:

I have such a smart Sistah!

 

[michaels4gardens]

JMPO--In all my personal research [at my place] I have come to the belief that number of kits born is mostly about the doe and her genetics, and not about the buck, or his number of mountings, but --I have seen slight increase in litter size with mountings from 2 different bucks. and-- as mentioned above-- I breed when the vulva color is right, and "almost never" have a miss, -- this last round [and I only have 12 does now] all 12 had good size litters, and none "missed"

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm on the fence about this vulva coloring though. My does have had good color, swollen, and have not been receptive to breed, trying multiple days... Then I've force bred none receptive but swollen does and had missed, had misses with receptive swollen does, and had litters with does with no color changes that I've force bred. No matter the method, when they finally kindled, they've been consistent with the number of kits, at least 7.