2nd ingredient in CalfManna is corn!

[MamaSheepdog]

Here I am, trying to avoid corn in my rabbit food at all costs, only to find that it is the 2nd ingredient in CalfManna. To say I feel like a fool is a gross understatement.

Ingredients: Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, dried whey, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, brewers dried yeast, vegetable oil, fenugreek seed, anise oil, and the usual litany of vitamin/mineral supplements.

I stopped adding CalfManna to my grain supplements about a week ago when I discovered this. The horses are going to be very happy to eat the rest of it up- they love CalfManna!

 

[skysthelimit]

Felt that way about Super 14. Here I am feeding Raw, no corn, no wheat, no by products, and adding some Super 14 for supplements. Well one shepherd came down with gunky ears, and it was the Super 14.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I hope your GSD has recovered. At least I didn't have any health problems that I know of- but I am still irritated with myself.

On a positive not, I spoke to a guy at the feed store, and he says HorseManna doesn't contain corn. I have no idea as of yet what it does contain, and couldn't find the ingredients listed online, but it might be an option.

 

[skysthelimit]

Still working on the ears, lots of ACV. That corn just pops up everywhere.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

"Hominy feed" is ALSO corn!!! AS is most 'vegetable oil' I don't think the more expensive canola, olive, Safflower etc, will be used in any manufacturer's 'Base line' products

And as Skysthelimit points out-- Corn is a great precursor to yeast infections in dogs-- Corn, wheat, soy, and Beef are the most common allergens in dog food-- First symptom is usually a yeast infection!

Skysthelimit, wash out those ears with Hibiclens-- (Chlorhexidine hydrochloride) it is a LOT faster than using ACV--- Kills yeast, fungus, bacteria, etc--and does a real good job at slowing down the regrowth rate when the infection is heavy..

 

[skysthelimit]

"Hominy feed" is ALSO corn!!! AS is most 'vegetable oil' I don't think the more expensive canola, olive, Safflower etc, will be used in any manufacturer's 'Base line' products

And as Skysthelimit points out-- Corn is a great precursor to yeast infections in dogs-- Corn, wheat, soy, and Beef are the most common allergens in dog food-- First symptom is usually a yeast infection!

Skysthelimit, wash out those ears with Hibiclens-- (Chlorhexidine hydrochloride) it is a LOT faster than using ACV--- Kills yeast, fungus, bacteria, etc--and does a real good job at slowing down the regrowth rate when the infection is heavy..

Where do I get it OTC?

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Where do I get it OTC?

Yep-- cheapest place is WalMart-- generic-- yu will find it in the section with Hydrogen peroxide, and other antibacterial agents. HibiClens is the surgical scrub used when a patient is allergic to iodine--- But you can also order, through animal catalogs, different forms, 'dedicated use', so to speak, for ears, hot spot treatments, etc-- I used it to bathe the late Connor with-- As Chessies have very oily coats, that do build up bacteria levels fast! Since Connor was a SD, I did not want doggy odor two days after his bath!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

"Hominy feed" is ALSO corn!!! AS is most 'vegetable oil

I know- hominy is like corn on steroids, at least size-wise... so double the corn content... and "vegetable oil" is a generic term for any non-animal based fat, whichever happens to be cheapest at the time.

I think I could have saved myself a lot of money by feeding our older horses a bunch of corn as opposed to CalfManna! Live and learn!

 

[akane]

This is what makes me wonder why so many use calf manna. Anyone trying to avoid any ingredient will likely find that ingredient in calf manna and all across the internet you can find problems it's caused even specifically in rabbits. Unless you don't have many concerns about ingredients in feed calf manna shouldn't make it very high on your list. Corn, hominy, vegetable oil, and for some soy (I only avoid some soy products and not soy oil since it beats generic vegetable oil by a lot at least)... it's a combination of the unhealthiest things in order to add unhealthy calories just to fatten large livestock who do not fatten the same as rabbits. BOSS may cost more but doesn't take a larger amount (teaspoons to tablespoons worth), has more calories, healthy fat sources, omega fatty acids, fiber if you use unhulled or high protein 20% if you use hulled, and has no health problems if over fed except the risk of obesity.

 

[ottersatin]

That is GREAT to know!
I have never used Calf Manna and no I never will.
In the past and on occasion I have and will use a mix of:
BOSS Whole Oats, Barley and Sweet-feed. Though I know
there is sometimes a bit of corn in that mix,
I don't feel it is enough to create a problem.
I use this mainly in the throws of an extended COLD Winter.
We have been very fortunate this year, the winter has not been
so harsh as it's been the years before.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[MaggieJ]

I hope your GSD has recovered. At least I didn't have any health problems that I know of- but I am still irritated with myself.

On a positive not, I spoke to a guy at the feed store, and he says HorseManna doesn't contain corn. I have no idea as of yet what it does contain, and couldn't find the ingredients listed online, but it might be an option.

I suggest that you email the manufacturer and ask them to send you an ingredients list for horse manna before buying it.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

That's a good idea, Maggie, I'll do that.

And don't think I don't see you smirking smugly while sipping your tea and thinking sweetly "I told you so!" :angel:

 

[Jessykah]

Hahaha! ...... I have asked people around here about calf manna, and they said they have never heard of it. Now I know that I don't need to ask about it anymore, because I won't be feeding it to my animals, thanks to this thread....thank you people!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Honestly, I don't see the issue. I give them such a small amount of Calf Manna that it really does not matter to me that it has corn in it. Corn is NOT the devil when used sparingly. It becomes a problem when it comprises too much of the diet. I also feed BOSS and whole oats as a supplement. I mix it two parts oats, 1 part BOSS, 1 part Calf Manna. They get 1 Tblsp of the mix, so they getting maybe only 1 Tsp of Calf Manna, if that. I have not had any issues from it. In fact, the only doe I have had with mastitis was one that was NOT getting any of the supplements....

Now, I HAVE had weanlings get into mom's Calf Manna before and THAT causes issues...nasty jelly poops that I had to work hard to cure. I will NEVER feed Calf Manna to weanlings...I only give the supplement with Calf Manna to does who's kits are still in the box. After that, it is BOSS/Oats only.

 

[akane]

Now, I HAVE had weanlings get into mom's Calf Manna before and THAT causes issues...nasty jelly poops that I had to work hard to cure. I will NEVER feed Calf Manna to weanlings

Right there is proof it can cause problems. The does just have a developed enough digestive tract you don't see the stress it may be causing. They've studied it more in horses but rabbits are quite similar and grain but especially corn causes gases and toxins from bacteria to be given off that stress the body since our grazing herbivores were never designed for grain in the first place. This is why laminitis happens in a horse. The toxins kill the laminae(little fibers that hold the hoof walls together) from the bacteria trying to digest the excess grain and corn being the worst offender. Rabbits just don't have hoofs and sensitive areas like that so your only clue comes from seeing digestive upset. Some grains can be fed safely like oats, barley, wheat, except in cases of allergies, but they still aren't really the ideal diet. They are just necessary because we push our animals beyond what their natural diet would allow them to handle for reproduction or exercise. Some grains/legumes like corn and occasionally soy products are not very safe or healthy and the fact you have to feed them in such a limited amount and to only certain animals is a red flag by itself.

 

[MaggieJ]

That's a good idea, Maggie, I'll do that.

And don't think I don't see you smirking smugly while sipping your tea and thinking sweetly "I told you so!" :angel:

No, not smirking... just not totally surprised. I have as strong distrust of manufactured animal foods in general, and those for rabbits in particular. I think I have never recovered from my shock of finding out that there was ANIMAL TALLOW in the pellets I used to feed to them. That, combined with the number of people whose rabbits were dying from contaminants in pellets that year (I think it was 2006 or thereabouts), was enough to send me in the direction of natural feeding. And, let me tell you, that was controversial back then! You should have heard the flack I got for not feeding my rabbits pellets! :argue:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

No, not smirking... just not totally surprised.

It's more fun to think of you smirking smugly...

was enough to send me in the direction of natural feeding. And, let me tell you, that was controversial back then! You should have heard the flack I got for not feeding my rabbits pellets! :argue:

You have to be pretty brave and have the courage of your convictions to go against the herd mentality. Believe me, I know- starting with my decision to have a home-birth with Firstpup, and the choices we have made since then pertaining to the raising of our "Pups"... it has been quite a wild ride. :shock:

Thankfully, love gives us a lot of strength and the determination to do what we know in our hearts to be right.

 

[MaggieJ]

The flack was only on the forum I was frequenting at that time, so I was fortunate not to have to deal with it in real life. Turned out there were a few people there who were natural feeding but keeping a low profile. Now there are whole stickies for natural feeding on that same forum... Quite a turnaround of views.

 

[SatinsRule]

Honestly, I don't see the issue. I give them such a small amount of Calf Manna that it really does not matter to me that it has corn in it. Corn is NOT the devil when used sparingly. It becomes a problem when it comprises too much of the diet. I also feed BOSS and whole oats as a supplement. I mix it two parts oats, 1 part BOSS, 1 part Calf Manna. They get 1 Tblsp of the mix, so they getting maybe only 1 Tsp of Calf Manna, if that. I have not had any issues from it. In fact, the only doe I have had with mastitis was one that was NOT getting any of the supplements....

Now, I HAVE had weanlings get into mom's Calf Manna before and THAT causes issues...nasty jelly poops that I had to work hard to cure. I will NEVER feed Calf Manna to weanlings...I only give the supplement with Calf Manna to does who's kits are still in the box. After that, it is BOSS/Oats only.

AMEN!!! I use it on does and litters and it works great for them. I have a doe that was scrawny as all get out after a recent litter, and after feeding Calf Manna for a couple of weeks, she looked 200% better.

As you said, you have to use it sparingly. The doe in question only was fed 1.5 tablespoons of it daily.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Now there are whole stickies for natural feeding on that same forum... Quite a turnaround of views.

Gee Maggie, you speak so modestly-- but you ARE a mover and a shaker!