???

[Zass]

This one belongs to a friend of mine. He's from a mutt colony setup where genetics are totally unknown.

Is he a chocolate chinchilla?

 

[PSFAngoras]

And a pretty one at that too!

 

[Zass]

See how his coat looks like that ranch fox variant?
It's one of my personal interests to see if I can get the SF style standup coat in more fox shades. I have to get clean breeding stock for that though, and a MUCH larger rabbitry. I think the US could find a market for rabbit fur, but we can't just copy what everyone else is already doing. Some original products are in order.

I think she would be better of trying to recreate his coat with better stock(he has pinched hips), but we have to be sure what it is first

 

[PSFAngoras]

We'll she's certainly lucky getting a chocolate chin by accident.

I could get chocolate chin in my herd with many generations and a lot of patience, but I hate waiting!

 

[Zass]

This guy could be bred to a chinchilla doe and then the doelings could be bred back for a good chance at more choco-chins, right? but then we would be concentrating the genes that produced those bad hips in the first place, along with other mutations that appeared in that particular colony.

 

[Bad Habit]

So breed to a chin doe with nice wide hips. Select the baby with the widest hips, and breed back to this guy. Or get a couple of nice wide chins and breed to him, saving back babies, so you can spread that bad hip gene out quicker(can breed 1/2 bro to 1/2 sis, get choc chin, breed out again for wide hips, repeat).

 

[AmysMacdog]

I like that! Very pretty! :good-luck:

 

[Zass]

So breed to a chin doe with nice wide hips. Select the baby with the widest hips, and breed back to this guy. Or get a couple of nice wide chins and breed to him, saving back babies, so you can spread that bad hip gene out quicker(can breed 1/2 bro to 1/2 sis, get choc chin, breed out again for wide hips, repeat).

Thanks
I'll be watching what she decides to do with him, and passing along your advice.
I think I could re-create this with better meat genes if I get kits from a sandy FG crossed to a typey standard or american chinchilla, even easier if I can find someone who crossed their FG colors where they shouldn't have Perhaps I could find a sandy with a light grey(I think that's FG talk for chin?) on the pedigree.

 

[Dood]

Chocolate is not a Flemish Giant colour.

Sandy FG are just plain chestnuts (not chocolate agouti) born from crossing the original FG colour fawn to light and dark chinchilla FG.

Because agouti is dominant to self, getting a nice chocolate meat buck and crossing him to several chins then crossing the kits from the litter would be my choice.

Since you cannot show them and they are destined for the freezer i would use him. Pinched hips are usually not as big of a problem in large breed rabbits if your worried about his daughters having birthing difficulties. Does his breeder report any birthing problems with his female relatives ?

 

[Zass]

Chocolate is not a Flemish Giant colour.

Sandy FG are just plain chestnuts (not chocolate agouti) born from crossing the original FG colour fawn to light and dark chinchilla FG.

Because agouti is dominant to self, getting a nice chocolate meat buck and crossing him to several chins then crossing the kits from the litter would be my choice.

Since you cannot show them and they are destined for the freezer i would use him. Pinched hips are usually not as big of a problem in large breed rabbits if your worried about his daughters having birthing difficulties. Does his breeder report any birthing problems with his female relatives ?

My friend isn't the breeder, but she does butcher for the breeder he came from. I don't know about birthing but there were some pretty bad defects coming out of the same colony.
to quote a few she described:
"blind in 1 eye and an enlarged eye socket"
and another one:
"back legs the same length as front ones, small rib cage, flattened face, tiny nasal passage, no upper teeth, and enlarged bottom teeth"

Darn it, I thought sandy Flemish were chocolate agoutis! But wait, don't Flemish come in chestnut agouti as well? What's the genetic difference then?
Where could I get chocolate from? (Don't say SF, from my experience, all you'll ever get from them is steel :wink

 

[Dood]

Sandy is chestnut / black agouti, they just call it a fancy name because they're special :roll: and chestnut rex are castor and chestnut angora are copper etc....

Unfortunately chocolate is not a popular colour in any breed and I don't know of any meat breed that accepts it except perhaps standard rex, but inbreeding those kits will mess up your desire for a nice pelt.

I occasionally get a chocolate out of my meat mutts so that might be the way to go but that sneaky steel could be lurking in there

 

[Zass]

Sandy is chestnut / black agouti, they just call it a fancy name because they're special :roll: and chestnut rex are castor and chestnut angora are copper etc....

That's true, but they don't LOOK like chestnuts (I guess they aren't supposed to also come in chestnut, there are just many breeders crossing colors, getting them and selling them anyway)

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/DunnMountain/sandy.html

I think this site is saying they have wideband, which accounts for part of why they look bit different?

 

[Dood]

Yes the fawn FG are bred to increase the yellow factors rather than black or red/Rufus favoured in other breeds so their chestnuts tend to be blonder than normally seen.

Remember there are many subtle colour genes that are giving us different shades of the more concrete colour locus A, B, C, D, and E

 

[Zass]

Yes the fawn FG are bred to increase the yellow factors rather than black or red/Rufus in other breeds so their chestnuts tend to be blonder than normally seen.

Remember there are many subtle colour genes that are giving us different shades of the more concrete colour locus A, B, C, D, and E

Alright, now that that's established, where can I get chocolate from?
Actually that crazy growing SF buckling of mine does have chocolate.
I have some pretty lilac colored kits out of him and my Lilac doe, if I try again I might get visual chocolates with no more than one copy of steel, at least.

 

[Dood]

Plus you'd get the silvering AND longer upright fur of the SF

 

[Zass]

Plus you'd get the silvering AND longer upright fur of the SF

Alright, since your good, what color are these ones?

http://classifieds.pennswoods.net/class ... ex=2651572

 

[Bunny-Wan Kenobi]

Plus you'd get the silvering AND longer upright fur of the SF

Alright, since your good, what color are these ones?

http://classifieds.pennswoods.net/class ... ex=2651572

These look like garden variety light chestnut agouti rabbits to me, one of them with just a little brown and mostly grey.

I'm sure you'll get a better answer from one of the members who actually knows something about genetics and colors, though.

 

[Miss M]

These look like garden variety light chestnut agouti rabbits to me, one of them with just a little brown and mostly grey.

I'm sure you'll get a better answer from one of the members who actually knows something about genetics and colors, though.

 

[Dood]

Opal (blue agouti), notice the greyish eye, and chestnut.

Very poor agouti patterning on them and from a long line of mutts IMHO - you want more of a mottled black ticking and not so even to better mimic wild fur. In AmChins SOP they call it a "zig zag" pattern of black ticking and a even salt pepper look is a disqualification

 

[Zass]

Opal (blue agouti), notice the greyish eye, and chestnut.

Very poor agouti patterning on them and from a long line of mutts IMHO - you want more of a mottled black ticking and not so even to better mimic wild fur. In AmChins SOP they call it a "zig zag" pattern of black ticking and a even salt pepper look is a disqualification

oh alright, my opals are so much bluer, but then...even my lynx were bluer than these. I'll go ahead and guess there's FG influence in the ones in the add, cause most large breed agouti colored mutts around here have it.

one of my lynx also from a long line of mutts, but high quality mutts IMHO.
(the lighting makes it look extra bluish here, it's a lynx...I totally have more pics to prove it)