100% mortality so far, please help me figure this out!

[GBov]

I have pictures but I cant post them till the weekend when my brother is here to show me. Its the new camera phone dealie and its really new to me.

But I will describe what I am seeing as well as I can.

It starts with black poo smeared on the back end and hair loss on the tail.

Most of the poo looks normal but its mixed in with black runny poo and small hard black bits of poo.

Then the rabbit starts loosing weight, despite continuing to eat and drink as normal.

Then the hips and back legs get stiff so the rabbit stops moving around.

By now the weight is dropping off like wax on a lit candle.

Then, despite its still eating, drinking and looking interesting in life, the rabbit dies.

When I opened one up I found bright pink lungs, kidneys that looked normal, liver that looked normal except one lobe which was a lighter color, rather reddish in fact. Large intestine was dark green and really big, stomach was a pasty white and very small, small intestine had sections full of green bile looking stuff and the hole things smelt very bad. NOT a normal inside rabbit smell at all but a nasty bitter stink.

Two rabbits have died from this thing and three more are showing symptoms. One is, of course, the best buck in the herd.

Please if this sounds like anything y'all know, please let me know!

These rabbits are our 4H herd so the kids are starting to get really freaked out about it.

 

[wamplercathy]

Sounds like an infection of some kind. Or the good bacteria is very low. Have you quarantine the sick from the herd? And sanitize all cages? Other than that I pulling a complete blank.

Wishing the best of luck,
Cathy

 

[GBov]

Sounds like an infection of some kind. Or the good bacteria is very low. Have you quarantine the sick from the herd? And sanitize all cages? Other than that I pulling a complete blank.

Wishing the best of luck,
Cathy

I think its a bit late to quarantine the sick as the kids pet all the bunnies all the time. The first to show symptoms was in the very back row and the second in the front, as far from her as you can get in the barn. If a bunny is going to get this, it already has and just isnt showing it yet.

Any ideas for treatment or do we just cull the effected and hope to not looses them all?

 

[Dood]

The paralysis and foul smell sounds like it might be a clostridium species of bacterial enteritis

 

[GBov]

The paralysis and foul smell sounds like it might be a clostridium species of bacterial enteritis

Treatment?

Am looking it up right now but any thoughts you have on treatment would be MUCH appreciated!

 

[Homer]

s the disease develops very rapidly, treatment of bacterial enteritis often comes too late. Antibiotics and sulfonamide drugs will help prevent the growth of pathogen bacteria. Anti-diarrhea product can help stop the diarrhea, e.g. Hylak, a concentrate of lactic ferments. The administration of cholestyramine will bind toxins released by pathogen bacteria. Probiotic powders or paste, although controversial, will help the growth of the endemic healthy bacterial flora.

If the rabbit is dehydrates, subcutaneous fluids should be given. If the rabbit refuses to eat, it must be forced food, using a syringe.

In the case of yeast overgrowth, this can be treated by reduced the carbohydrates sources in the diet, or with nystatin.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm

 

[GBov]

s the disease develops very rapidly, treatment of bacterial enteritis often comes too late. Antibiotics and sulfonamide drugs will help prevent the growth of pathogen bacteria. Anti-diarrhea product can help stop the diarrhea, e.g. Hylak, a concentrate of lactic ferments. The administration of cholestyramine will bind toxins released by pathogen bacteria. Probiotic powders or paste, although controversial, will help the growth of the endemic healthy bacterial flora.

If the rabbit is dehydrates, subcutaneous fluids should be given. If the rabbit refuses to eat, it must be forced food, using a syringe.

In the case of yeast overgrowth, this can be treated by reduced the carbohydrates sources in the diet, or with nystatin.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm

The first one to get it took over 3 weeks to die, despite eating and drinking the entire time. In fact, I only realized she had something contagous when the second one presented the same symptoms.

What I dont understand is why half teh time they have normal poo and the other not?

With three more down wiht it, I really want to nip this in the bud!

 

[Homer]

Good luck to you. If it;s not a form of bacterial enteritis I don't know what it could be. If they were mine I'd start getting some sulfa based meds in them.

 

[GBov]

Any idea what could have kicked it off? No new stock, no new feed, no new treats and the heat has gone DOWN after a summer of dangerously high temps.

Its actually the last time of year I would have expected something going wrong! We havent even started to breed yet!

 

[Ramjet]

bacterial enteritis

That was my first thought ...


Good luck clearing it up.

 

[Prisma]

Hmm sounds like scours in cattle/goats/etc. Can take days or weeks to kill off through slow dehydration, some go within 24 hours. It has a very specific smell, stinks to high heaven like rotting muck.

 

[GBov]

Am heading to the feed store at 3:30, what is best for me to get for them?

 

[Olimpia]

I've dealt with something similar to this, paraylsis included, during the summer. (did not have hair loss around the tail though?)

I would say it is a lot of work invovled, I would clean the rabbits bottoms often as well.

This girl was paralyzed but pulled through with some work..

I treated with sulfaquinoxaline, amprol works as well, but it was more expensive ($80/gal vs $130/gal), and the lady at the feed store commented that most people use the sulfaquinoxaline. There are several other sulfa-drugs that work as well. Make sure you note the percentage, I think mine was 19% concentration which is the normal.

I used the treatment from this website, which was 14 days of treatment, 7 days of rest, 14 days of treatment. After that I felt they were fine to go off.
http://www.fao.org/docs/eims/upload/agr ... /05-80.pdf

My advice is that as long as they are eating and drinking, keep treating.
If the animal goes off feed/water, dispatch it. Unless you are willing to go to a vet to get IV fluids into the animal, it will die very shortly after appetite stops anyways.
I know more passive treatments involve electrolytes, and baby gas drops, but this isn't nearly as effective and probably won't work for rabbits that far gone.

 

[GBov]

I've dealt with something similar to this, paraylsis included, during the summer. (did not have hair loss around the tail though?)

I would say it is a lot of work invovled, I would clean the rabbits bottoms often as well.

This girl was paralyzed but pulled through with some work..

I treated with sulfaquinoxaline, amprol works as well, but it was more expensive ($80/gal vs $130/gal), and the lady at the feed store commented that most people use the sulfaquinoxaline. There are several other sulfa-drugs that work as well. Make sure you note the percentage, I think mine was 19% concentration which is the normal.

I used the treatment from this website, which was 14 days of treatment, 7 days of rest, 14 days of treatment. After that I felt they were fine to go off.
http://www.fao.org/docs/eims/upload/agr ... /05-80.pdf

My advice is that as long as they are eating and drinking, keep treating.
If the animal goes off feed/water, dispatch it. Unless you are willing to go to a vet to get IV fluids into the animal, it will die very shortly after appetite stops anyways.
I know more passive treatments involve electrolytes, and baby gas drops, but this isn't nearly as effective and probably won't work for rabbits that far gone.

So sorry you had it too but yay, I am not alone!

Good to know it responds to treatment. <br /><br /> -- Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:07 pm -- <br /><br /> Feed store did NOT have any, neither did TSC.

Shall keep looking!

 

[wamplercathy]

If it were my herd, only 4 adults and 10 little ones, I'd dispatch and start with new stock. But if you have a large, well established herd that decision is hard to swallow.

Look towards the future:
Will these animals still be good producers after they are saved?
What is the cost of saving them vs actual survival?
You said it has a 100% mortality rate, think about the realistic chances of survival.
If it is highly contagious will new stock contract the illness through old stock that are saved or never showed symptoms?
These are just a few of the questions I would ask.

Best case:
You treat and everything returns to normal.
Worst case:
Despite treating, you still have dispatch whole herd and start fresh after a marathon cleaning session.
I hope others have a better solution.
Just how I'm seeing things,
Cathy

 

[michaels4gardens]

have you ruled out coccidiosis?

 

[GBov]

have you ruled out coccidiosis?

Pretty much as the liver was fine. No spots on it at all.

I was wondering about hepatic coccidiosis though as we have had it in the past. Its over a year though and with no new stock incoming, dont know where or how they would have gotten reinfected?

 

[wamplercathy]

Could a wild critter have brought in an illness? Mice carry all kind of things. Even if it only just ran through and didn't stay. What kind of cage setup do you have? I've heard of colony setups having issues with wild rabbits bring illness to their herd.
Just a couple thoughts,
Cathy

 

[GBov]

Could a wild critter have brought in an illness? Mice carry all kind of things. Even if it only just ran through and didn't stay. What kind of cage setup do you have? I've heard of colony setups having issues with wild rabbits bring illness to their herd.
Just a couple thoughts,
Cathy

All wire breeder cages is what we have, and yes, we do have rats. :evil:

What we also have are lots of kids with pet rabbits that come to the meetings and play with the bunny barn bunnies so perhaps that is where it came from. Or is it poss. for something like this to be in the herd and just crop up? It has been a horrendously hot summer and its still not as cool as it should be.

 

[michaels4gardens]

have you ruled out coccidiosis?

Pretty much as the liver was fine. No spots on it at all.

I was wondering about hepatic coccidiosis though as we have had it in the past. Its over a year though and with no new stock incoming, dont know where or how they would have gotten reinfected?

liver damage "spots" are not evident in rapid onset intestinal coccidiosis infection,-- it has the symptoms you describe, and...Corid is cheap.....