The Taming Of The Shrew after Awful First Dates? - Popples!

Hi,

I've a doe with appr. 11 months, and a new buck who just matures, about 4 1/2 months now.

Some weeks ago he started spraying and to show interest in the girls, sniffing and marking around their hutch, so I thought it's worth a try to give them a rendezvous. :mrgreen:

Let them out in the yard, but after first contact she shooed him away and he didn't persist. Ok, to getting them know each other I put the doe in a cage in my living room and let him get familiar through the bars, seemed to work fine. But I guess he was still too young.



Second date 2 weekes later was a disaster, THATS no way to treat a buck! :evil:

First they touched noses, doe gives him a grunt and shooes him away again. He keeps sneaking up, she charges. Actually, that was funny to watch, she charges, he speeds up too and jumps high over the doe, but after about 10 seconds and 3 or 4 times of that I finally grabbed the doe because she went into fight mode.

She lives together with her mother and 2 younger silblings (6wks), the buck lives alone but gets some time with the growouts.

Somehow I have the feeling that beeing with the older doe and competing for dominance makes her act hostile to the buck, I'm thinking about isolating her for a few days and try to socialise them again. Or should I wait til the buck is older, but I want to breed her this year, and as soon as possible because I'll be in the US at christmas, the headcount then should be not more than 4 bunnies because I have to find someone to take care of the buns.

Any ideas how to proceed? How do I get the deed done? :kiss: :lovers:

Following with interest as I just had a young doe run off an experienced buck

Hi Preitler!

As you probably know, I'm pretty new at this but thought I'd throw out an idea...

We've had a few threads discussing the use of Apple Cider Vinegar at the rate of 1 to 2 tablespoons per gallon is the rabbit's water. One of the "benefits" of ACV that I've read about is that people have used it to get their rabbits "in the mood". The ones I've read about mention difficulties just like yours (inexperienced or uninterested buck and uncooperative doe). After a few days on the ACV water they tried again with instant success.

Might be worth a try and certainly would be a great time to experiment. Would love to hear your results if you decide to try it.

Good luck!

Your idea of isolation for a few days is exactly what I would try first, if I were in the same situation. And then, I'd put her into *his* territory after isolation. And if she's still acting crazy that day, I'd try again the next day.

Both of my does *missed* in March after putting them with my buck in February. Neither one of them had interest in him when I put them together. Both fled from him like he was the plague. It was exhausting and confusing for him, so I pinned the does down for him to do the deed the first time. Once they'd been "tagged" they went into a trance and put up with another fall off without my help. But I really think they were not in the mood, and probably why they didn't take. The does had been living together for about 6 months by that time. After their missed due dates, I separated them and bred them again. Both were more willing participants the second time around... maybe because they weren't feeling competitive anymore at that point. The second doe welcomed the buck so well, that I left her in with him for 3 weeks. They were so happy together.

Watch you doe closely too. She'll let you know when she wants bred.

If I offer a doe a treat and she chin-rubs it before even sniffing it, or if she lifts when I pet her, she's not likely to refuse a buck.

Well, that was interesting :shock:

I watched her, but her behaviour never changed. She doesn't like being petted so no rubbing beside the usual marking of everything in the yard, and the ACV may be a good idea, but my buns drink nothing this time of the year.

After I kept her a few days in isolation (that was one bored bunny!) I fenced off an about 2x3m corner of the yard, put him in there, and after an hour her too.

Same game as ever, she grunts, he runs, she charges, he jumps, tufts of hair flying... :evil:

Ok. I saw It won't work that way. It's a self-sustaining action-reaction game.
So I took a small box, just big enough for the two of them and stuffed them in. The first minutes I kept my hands on their ears, after he flopped comfortably down I just guarded the open side of the box. You wouldn't believe it - PEACE , ok, a somewhat high strung peace, but they didn't grunt, jump or fight.

After 10 minutes I let them out, and now he was much bolder, chased her a little, when he got her she lay flat and lifted, and yeah, :wr_power:
After falling off there was a little fight, but well, he is a brave boy.

I put them back in their hutches after he got her the third time.

She isn't tamed to him yet, but for a few seconds instincts made her a good bunny
I will repeat that since, considering the colour of her parts, she wasn't really ready. Not that I think that matters much, but just to be sure...


After that I think it would have worked if I had put them in a very small hutch right away. They do not fight in close quarters, can't run away either. I was ready to break up a class 5 Furnado in the box, but no, nothing.

Can't wait to see what their litter will look like

Congratulations Preitler!

Good effort on your part and good information for future reference.

Thanks!

Hi, now I'm pretty sure she is bred, hormons are kicking in. Yesterday I found a small hole in the garden, and today this in my basement:


Since it's very hot they can roam free when I'm at home, and I've had all doors open, didn't see her for hours. :dig-hole:

I wonder if they dig only when preparing to build a nest or is it just bunny thing.

How far along is she, two weeks?

About 10 days. Sometimes they dig tunnels several meters long, does working in shifts and also the buck chiming in, but imho when pregnant they do it more often.



Actually, my two older does, 3-4yr, don't do it that much anymore, black doe did 2 tunnels with just about 1m each this year. Didn't breed the grey one, and she didn't dig.

I hope that awful heat wave is over before the kits are due :wr_sweat: , grass is starting to wilt...

I believe I read once of a way to get her in the mood that might be worth a try in the future. House the buck in a different cage for a day, and put the doe alone in his cage. She'll get used to his scent. Next day, take her out and put him back in. After a couple hours, put her in his cage with him. She should recognize that she's in HIS territory and not be quite as aggressive.

Your rabbits must be in heaven, running freely all day and just being rabbits. I let my two does loose last years and never got one of them back, so now I am really careful with them. How do you keep them on your property, do you have rabbitproof fencing ?

My grandma says that the weather changes after the first rain in august. She is 90, so she should now I believe that this weekend we are saying goodbye to really hot summer and starting "to autumn". Even this heatwave is kinda chilly,still 34-36degrees but with low humidity. We had 16degrees at 6am and 23 at 9pm yesterday.

Allowing the rabbits to come into contact with the soil, exposes them
to coccidiosis. It's only a matter of time and they'll come down with it.

If a young buck is allowed to get his butt kicked by a nasty, ill-tempered
doe, he can be ruined for future use. ALWAYS...........keep an eye on
the young fella and DON'T allow him to be roughed-up in any way, form,
or fashion. DON'T allow him to be "topped" by a doe. He'll be submissive
if it's done to him too many times. It won't be long and he'll be useless
and afraid to try to breed, remembering the a$$-whippin's he's received
in the past.

Grumpy

We had them on the ground at least 10-15 years and never experienced problems with coccidia. Like you said about soil, a lot of people say about wooden hutches and I can`t believe that I still have rabbits.. Movement and expressing their instincts (digging, bonding with others, etc) improves their immune system and contributes greatly to fighting with diseases and overall health.

We all breed for health, I am breeding for healthy ground rabbits

I would love to have a colony, but I have fire ants.

Preitler, that's awesome that you had good results with stuffing them both in a small box! I will remember that!

That's a great picture of your doe!!

Miss M":17ltoifd said:

I would love to have a colony, but I have fire ants.

Click to expand...

IT`S uch better than television, my favourite scene is when they share a twig/treat/carrot, like you see people doing with spaghetti. Don˙t know what is cuter than kissing bunnies

Hi,

actually, not many of the small meat breeders over here seem even to know coccidiosis or many other diseases. Only read about that in the local pet boards.
I'm sure my rabbits were exposed to pretty much before they even came to me, and after 3 years of digging they'll already got in contact with whatever is out there. Can't help it, for me a great part of the satisfaction of keeping rabbits comes from having them running around. And I've not heard that that is a problem here, I guess only rabbits that really get sick get culled by our small scale farm and backyard breeders.

I do not raise for comercial reasons, and I don't have a big herd. If one gets sick, well, bad, but I don't think any stock here was ever really isolated from germs, also the wild rabbits will always come close (here, exactly the same species as our bunnies). Only problem encountered till now was Myxo, but where I live since February there is no wild rabbit population, should be safe from that now

I have a fence, but that's more symbolic, no foundation or so, and enough points where a rabbit could fit through if it wanted to, but most accept it. End of territory. From time to time one gets out, but they always take the exakt way back when chased, so easy to find and close loopholes. Sold the last one that didn't stop getting out.
They aren't out the whole day (each hutch seperatly), only for a few hours when I'm at home. Most return to their hutch at nightfall by themself, othes I lure in with pellets. I don't let them out under 6 weeks, and not before one is at least a month or two in his hutch and has accepted this as his home. If you let them out without a fence or some supervision they will expand their radius pretty fast (tried that out at the beginning), and will find a nice new home or their end by fox, dog etc.

I think my buck was too young and didn't exactly know what that shrew is good for, but when he saw close up that she's just another bunny and got the point about what to do he had the upper hand

Anyway, each rabbit is different, I like to study their behavior and to tinker about what's going on in these little brains and how to react to that

How do you keep them when does are pregnant and nursing? Is the transition from rangingfree to being enclosed in a hutch all day very stresfull do them? I am planning keeping them in from the day 28 of gestation and till the babies are 3 weeks old, is this ok?

I don't change anything in the routine. They get their garden time anyway. Pregnant and nursing does even more since I don't want to stress them and I think digging is a good workout, they get a good time. I use closed litter boxes with just one entrance, which gets stuffed tight with hay by the doe for the first week. When the kits are big enough to come out of the box I close the hutch when the doe is out.

I used to let them out with my buck, he was a sweetie, not sure if that will work with thw new buck, but now my two breeding does are living together anyway, so no need for company.

I plan to breed them alternatly, not 2 litters at the same time, they are too pumped up with hormones then to be really predictable. It's mother and daughter, black mom had 2 litters now with the red doe in the same hutch - no problem. Now I'm waiting for the first litter of the red doe.

-- Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:19 pm --

Update:

Well, that was a false pregnancy, meticulously carried out. I bred her again after her time was due, and for just to be sure I stuffed her into the bucks hutch for 3 days one week later. Hm, never heard so much odd sounds from a rabbit. Very vocal girl, sounded like something between pig and small fowl. But they got along really fine, no aggressions, lots of cuddling.

The breeder I have the buck from told me that he puts them together for 3 days to get a hit :x , wtf, my old buck had a 100% rate after maximum 3 minutes, with the Black Fury it was always under 30 seconds, record way under 10 seconds, I think I'll keep one of his sons (I've 8 to chose from) until I'm sure the new buck actually get's a hit. He is a really sweet guy, but hasn't proven he's capable of his job til now.

And, I'm Rabbitosis infected, I'll keep one of the doelings from my old buck, younger sister of my shrew, 3 breeding does then. There were some troubles introducing her back to her older sister and mother, but it seems to work out, when they are in the garden they already act as a team.
But have to cull my grey doe, her eyes aren't getting any better. Too bad, she is somewhat bigger than the black, but had always litters of 5 or 6 which would be perfect for me, they grow fast and I don't need 9 to 11 per litter...