Rabbits by Accident
Well-known member
If you get the leather sleeves, you won't have to worry about what they do LOL
Should I leave nesting boxes in the rabbits cage all the time?
- Thread starter Celeste5
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Celeste5
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I also meant to ask, picking them up by the scruff won’t suffocate them right? I know my mom used to warn me against holding our large orange cat that way because she said the cat was too heavy to hold that way. I feel like my rabbits are close to being as heavy as that cat so I just wanted to make sure it wouldn’t hurt them.
The reflex to go limp disappears sometime around 4 weeks old when they are mobile enough (dogs & cats), rabbits don't have the reflex, because a doe cannot pick up kits that way.
Other than that, there are connective tissues going from skin to underlying layers of muscle and such, those are not designed to carry that much weight in an adult animal. You can do damage and hurt an animal that way, giving them reason to fight and panic. Scruffing to keep an animal flat on a table is another matter. I pick them up just in front of the hips if i need a one handed grip, then you have a grip around the spine and way more structure to hold then just skin. And even then only untill i have them close and on my arm or into a transportcrate. Yes, that is way easier with an animal that maxes out at about 4 pounds.
Other than that, there are connective tissues going from skin to underlying layers of muscle and such, those are not designed to carry that much weight in an adult animal. You can do damage and hurt an animal that way, giving them reason to fight and panic. Scruffing to keep an animal flat on a table is another matter. I pick them up just in front of the hips if i need a one handed grip, then you have a grip around the spine and way more structure to hold then just skin. And even then only untill i have them close and on my arm or into a transportcrate. Yes, that is way easier with an animal that maxes out at about 4 pounds.
I try everything else first rather than scruffing them. While I've never heard that it will suffocate them, picking a rabbit up by the scruff, especially a larger/adult one, separates the skin from the muscle beneath.
Unlike cats, rabbits never pick up their babies by the scruff, and their bodies are not built to withstand it (and if anything would make them feel like a predator had them, it would be that!). I have seen the damage when butchering and don't want to have any part in that.Only very rarely do I grab rabbits by the scruff, but sometimes you're not left much choice. (I like my rabbits, but I am not willing to sacrifice my own skin for them!) In those incorrigible cases, I collect both ears and scruff in my right hand, but I do NOT lift or carry a rabbit that way. Once their ears and shoulders are immobilized, they tend to stay still, though I would not call it relaxed. When I have them immobilized, I reach under them and lift them, by the body, with my left hand. Sometimes my hand is under their belly, sometimes it's cupped under their hindquarters - this depends on how big the rabbit is.
I don't carry them that way, either, since they tend to start flailing if you have very far to go. What I normally do is pull them up against my own body and carry them that way (my rabbits are gentle, even when they're being pills about being taken out of their cages). But I also handle a lot of other people's rabbits which are not gentle, and if I'm afraid a rabbit will bite me, I flip it over on its back in the cradle of my elbow and carry it that way. I've had nasty angry does furiously chewing on their own dewlap in that position, but they couldn't get to me.
Once you get where you're going, you just roll the rabbit forward onto the table/ground/whatever.If you're moving rabbits from one cage to the other, or out to a pen in the yard, and you have trouble keeping them in your arms for the trip, you might consider just bringing a small carrier or even a cardboard box to the cage, pulling the rabbit from its cage directly into the carrier, then carrying them in that. That's what I have smaller kids do with very large rabbits.
Rabbits by Accident
Well-known member
I had written a nice long clarifying answer & my ancient tablet froze up & lost it.
@Alaska Satin did a good job explaining pretty much what I was going to say.
My rabbits are 10-14 lbs. I don't have to pick them up by the scruff very often, but my buck was being really rotten the other day (not that I blame him, he didn't want to go back in the cage after being in the playyard) Anyway, I picked held him by the scruff & looked him in the eye & told him to behave. Probably 5-10 seconds. He settled down.
I do have 3 cages that open from the top. When I have to pick up a rabbit from there
1) I talk to them - tell them I'm going to pick them up, pet them & calm them down & tell them how wonderful they are LOL I actually think this is the most important part - talking to them
2) I hold the scruff, very firmly with as much skin as I can get & I put my other hand under their chest.
3) I lift them with as much of the chest as possible, but if they're kicking, sometimes you just have to use the scruff until you can get them to a point that you can get them safely
4) Then I hold them mostly under their chest, but keep my hand on their neck, if they fuss, I tighten the grip on the skin of their neck
5) Also, when they fuss, I say tchhhh tchhhhh at them. I don't think it matters what noise you make, but that sound works for mine and they stop. I think you could make just about any scolding sound.
If they get used to you talking to them, I think it helps & they understand what you're saying. My husband does most of the feeding, but he doesn't talk much. They like it when I come out and chatter to them & sing, they seem to like the singing LOL
They may not have the reflex to go limp I have found that they stop fussing & settle down when I do it.
But I do think you ought to get those arm things & you might be calmer. Or at least less scarred LOL
Celeste5
Member
Ya, I have used their scruff to keep them in one place while they’re still on their feet but it just didn’t quite seem right picking them up like that. I think mostly because of what my mom has taught me. It makes me glad I haven’t done that more than a few times and that they’re still ok. I don’t think I’ll do that again unless I have another hand hanging onto them in another spot.
Celeste5
Member
I definitely won’t hold them that way anymore then. I’ve done it once or twice when trying to figure out how to handle them but it never worked well anyway. I’m also a bit afraid to hold them very close to me. I can handle scratches on my arms and hands, but I’d rather not have them on my stomach or chest. I honestly don’t know, though. I feel like if I could just get them out of their cage, I can handle the rest. They squirm and scratch so much. Idk? My mom has asked me before why I like bird so much and that’s probably one of the main reasons, they are just a lot easier to handle. You only have to worry about 2 feet instead of four and normally bird bites don’t hurt as much as a mammals bite. I haven’t been bitten by the rabbits yet and I hope I’m never bitten but man they fight and I wouldn’t put that past them.I try everything else first rather than scruffing them. While I've never heard that it will suffocate them, picking a rabbit up by the scruff, especially a larger/adult one, separates the skin from the muscle beneath.
Only very rarely do I grab rabbits by the scruff, but sometimes you're not left much choice. (I like my rabbits, but I am not willing to sacrifice my own skin for them!) In those incorrigible cases, I collect both ears and scruff in my right hand, but I do NOT lift or carry a rabbit that way. Once their ears and shoulders are immobilized, they tend to stay still, though I would not call it relaxed. When I have them immobilized, I reach under them and lift them, by the body, with my left hand. Sometimes my hand is under their belly, sometimes it's cupped under their hindquarters - this depends on how big the rabbit is.
I don't carry them that way, either, since they tend to start flailing if you have very far to go. What I normally do is pull them up against my own body and carry them that way (my rabbits are gentle, even when they're being pills about being taken out of their cages). But I also handle a lot of other people's rabbits which are not gentle, and if I'm afraid a rabbit will bite me, I flip it over on its back in the cradle of my elbow and carry it that way. I've had nasty angry does furiously chewing on their own dewlap in that position, but they couldn't get to me.
If you're moving rabbits from one cage to the other, or out to a pen in the yard, and you have trouble keeping them in your arms for the trip, you might consider just bringing a small carrier or even a cardboard box to the cage, pulling the rabbit from its cage directly into the carrier, then carrying them in that. That's what I have smaller kids do with very large rabbits.
Handling animals is definitely a learned skill. Part of it is a back-and-forth of establishing confidence on your part and trust on the animal's part. My daughter and I have been able to handle many people's "uncontrollable" animals because of our confidence, which comes from experience and transmits to the animal, often making it calm rather than panicky. There really are some plain old nasty rabbits, but we've found that they're few and far between. In our experience, most kicky scratchy bunnies are acting out of fear or nervousness, though occasionally young does just coming into sexual maturity will be pretty uppity for a while.I definitely won’t hold them that way anymore then. I’ve done it once or twice when trying to figure out how to handle them but it never worked well anyway. I’m also a bit afraid to hold them very close to me. I can handle scratches on my arms and hands, but I’d rather not have them on my stomach or chest. I honestly don’t know, though. I feel like if I could just get them out of their cage, I can handle the rest. They squirm and scratch so much. Idk? My mom has asked me before why I like bird so much and that’s probably one of the main reasons, they are just a lot easier to handle. You only have to worry about 2 feet instead of four and normally bird bites don’t hurt as much as a mammals bite. I haven’t been bitten by the rabbits yet and I hope I’m never bitten but man they fight and I wouldn’t put that past them.
One thing that will make even gentle rabbits fight, scratch and kick is feeling insecure when they are held improperly. To get them out of the cage, holding them securely with one hand on their ears/head/scruff, and the other hand gathering up their hindquarters, is usually a good way to go. If the rabbit is really being a pill, I don't put my hand underneath it at all, I just cup my left hand around the back of the hindquarters and scoot the whole rabbit forward. Once the rabbit is at the cage door (in a front-opening cage), you can lift the ears/scruff just slightly so that you can scoop the hindquarters up and lift the whole animal out that way. I find that pulling the rabbit directly against my chest at that point is helpful to keep it from flailing. Allowing it to "hide" its head in the crook of your elbow can also make it less fearful. @RabbitsbyAccident's suggestion of arm guards is a good idea to protect your arms, but if you're worried about being bitten, try wearing a heavy flannel shirt or coat. We have lined flannel "barn coats" (from a thrift store) specifically for use in the rabbit barn, especially when we're handling someone else's unpleasant rabbit. That way a rabbit who suddenly decides to take a bite out of your arm or side will only get a mouthful of fabric.
When you're holding or carrying them, it's generally a good idea to use your hand/arm to support their hindquarters - a rabbit whose hindquarters are not well-supported feels like it's falling. The front feet are less of an issue, but having the rabbit securely tucked up against your chest often calms the animal (not squeezing it, of course, just holding it firmly to make it feel secure). What we don't use, though, is gloves. Not only do big leather gloves seem to freak rabbits out, but you have less control over the animal, and don't have the ability to feel what's going on with the rabbit either (see below regarding being able to anticipate a problem). Also, the feel of soft bunny fur is one of the nicer parts of having and handling rabbits, so why miss out on that?
To establish your own confidence, it can help to spend time being with and watching the animals. One suggestion I would have is to get the rabbit out its cage (however you need to do it) and spend time petting it and talking to it gently - I agree with @Rabbits by Accident that talking to them is very helpful. You can do this on a carpet-covered table right next to the cage. Even better, IMO, would be to take a folding chair out and sit with the rabbit in your lap (with a barn coat on and an old towel across your knees, if for no other reason than to help you feel less worried about being scratched or bitten). With the rabbit on your lap, you'll start to be able to feel the rabbit's movements and begin to pick up on more subtle cues in its actions, and being able to anticipate changes in a rabbit's behavior goes a long way to preventing accidents.
While some people have different opinions, I actually prefer to approach a rabbit from above. In rabbit language, a dominant rabbit will stand with its head higher and approach a submissive one from above, meaning the dominant animal will put its head over the top of the other's, while the submissive one will push its own head under the head/chest of the dominant one. Recreating this in your own actions can encourage a submissive response in the rabbit, which will make the rabbit a lot easier to handle. It will also desensitise the rabbit to being handled, and once it's out of the cage may quite enjoy it (most rabbits never do like the actual picking-up part).
If I could have more top-opening cages I would. My rabbits are mostly friendly, so the ones in top-opening cages often reach up to greet me, but the shyer ones have a tendency to just freeze. It may be that the rabbit sees you as a predator, but rabbit predators come from both the air and the ground, so I don't know that you can avoid that. Either way, I find it it much nicer to just lift them up rather than having to chase them to the back of the cage and drag them out a front door. Also, to a dominant rabbit, a head-on approach from a front door can seem aggressive and can provoke an aggressive response, but coming down from above the rabbit can impress on the rabbit that it won't win this one.
The placement/height of the cage can make a huge difference in this process, so you might consider adjusting your cage heights if it's really difficult for you to get the rabbits out of them.
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Sounds like they resist more at the start of the trip, and calm down once they're carried.
First to do is find a way to get them to the front of the cage without wrestling; for my reticent buns, I keep an egg basket in their cage; not an Easter basket, but those wire frame ovals that have the chicken wire around them... Buns love to sit in them or throw them about so it's also enrichment, but I like it because it's the perfect shape to scoot behind their little bum and pull them to the door.
Second is conditioning them to realize they get a treat if the go out. Raisins or dried bananas always in your pockets or in a box atop the cage, as soon as you have bunny in your arms you offer a treat; they won't necessarily eat it immediately, if they feel threatened they don't eat, but they know it's there and have it accessible until they do eat it. Once they get used to this, you'll be able to see the most adorable sight: anger snacking. You can tell that the little ball of cute is showing you their displeasure by eating the peace offering with particular resentful "yeah, you better give me this treat it's the least I deserve for putting up with this" gusto!
Third is knowing what they don't like when you hold them. I grew up with cats, so my first buns I was holding as I would hold a cat; with the feet supported, and so they could see whatever they wanted to see. The breeder explained that bunnies don't care as much about having their feet supported, they want their bum supported. My carrying technique is to rest the bum in the crook of my elbow, letting the hand hold on to the front feet- so they lean against my chest, but the feet are pointed down and won't get through the fabric of my shirt to scratch me. At best, I ruin a shirt with a puncture mark. Best clothing to wear is thick satin( easy to clean the fur, too) or something else tightly woven and unstretchy. If you think bun is too uptight and might struggle, use the other hand or your open jacket to cover the eyes. I don't know why that calms them down, but it does
Celeste5
Member
Thank you fo
With what rabbits by accident was saying though I thought maybe I should try them but you’re right, I really do want to be able to feel their amazingly soft fur. I don’t want to be that scared of them. Also the bucks I left in my top opening cage do stand up tall to smell me when I open their cage. I always thought that was really cute and funny, especially when their ears are all perked up straight. It seems I have two that freeze and don’t like to be touched and two that are pretty much like well I guess if you have to touch me I might as well boop you with my nose. I love those two that like to smell my hand. Luckily one is a boy and one is a girl so I was thinking about putting them together to maybe try and breed out the fearfulness a bit. I know most of it is just how much your around them but I feel like who the parents are matters as well.
Thank you for all the great information. I wasn’t too sure about the leather gloves either, partially because I’ve never liked wearing gloves of any kind even when handling freshly split wood.Handling animals is definitely a learned skill. Part of it is a back-and-forth of establishing confidence on your part and trust on the animal's part. My daughter and I have been able to handle many people's "uncontrollable" animals because of our confidence, which comes from experience and transmits to the animal, often making it calm rather than panicky. There really are some plain old nasty rabbits, but we've found that they're few and far between. In our experience, most kicky scratchy bunnies are acting out of fear or nervousness, though occasionally young does just coming into sexual maturity will be pretty uppity for a while.
One thing that will make even gentle rabbits fight, scratch and kick is feeling insecure when they are held improperly. To get them out of the cage, holding them securely with one hand on their ears/head/scruff, and the other hand gathering up their hindquarters, is usually a good way to go. If the rabbit is really being a pill, I don't put my hand underneath it at all, I just cup my left hand around the back of the hindquarters and scoot the whole rabbit forward. Once the rabbit is at the cage door (in a front-opening cage), you can lift the ears/scruff just slightly so that you can scoop the hindquarters up and lift the whole animal out that way. I find that pulling the rabbit directly against my chest at that point is helpful to keep it from flailing. Allowing it to "hide" its head in the crook of your elbow can also make it less fearful. @RabbitsbyAccident's suggestion of arm guards is a good idea to protect your arms, but if you're worried about being bitten, try wearing a heavy flannel shirt or coat. We have lined flannel "barn coats" (from a thrift store) specifically for use in the rabbit barn, especially when we're handling someone else's unpleasant rabbit. That way a rabbit who suddenly decides to take a bite out of your arm or side will only get a mouthful of fabric.
When you're holding or carrying them, it's generally a good idea to use your hand/arm to support their hindquarters - a rabbit whose hindquarters are not well-supported feels like it's falling. The front feet are less of an issue, but having the rabbit securely tucked up against your chest often calms the animal (not squeezing it, of course, just holding it firmly to make it feel secure). What we don't use, though, is gloves. Not only do big leather gloves seem to freak rabbits out, but you have less control over the animal, and don't have the ability to feel what's going on with the rabbit either (see below regarding being able to anticipate a problem). Also, the feel of soft bunny fur is one of the nicer parts of having and handling rabbits, so why miss out on that?
To establish your own confidence, it can help to spend time being with and watching the animals. One suggestion I would have is to get the rabbit out its cage (however you need to do it) and spend time petting it and talking to it gently - I agree with @Rabbits by Accident that talking to them is very helpful. You can do this on a carpet-covered table right next to the cage. Even better, IMO, would be to take a folding chair out and sit with the rabbit in your lap (with a barn coat on and an old towel across your knees, if for no other reason than to help you feel less worried about being scratched or bitten). With the rabbit on your lap, you'll start to be able to feel the rabbit's movements and begin to pick up on more subtle cues in its actions, and being able to anticipate changes in a rabbit's behavior goes a long way to preventing accidents.
While some people have different opinions, I actually prefer to approach a rabbit from above. In rabbit language, a dominant rabbit will stand with its head higher and approach a submissive one from above, meaning the dominant animal will put its head over the top of the other's, while the submissive one will push its own head under the head/chest of the dominant one. Recreating this in your own actions can encourage a submissive response in the rabbit, which will make the rabbit a lot easier to handle. It will also desensitise the rabbit to being handled, and once it's out of the cage may quite enjoy it (most rabbits never do like the actual picking-up part).
If I could have more top-opening cages I would. My rabbits are mostly friendly, so the ones in top-opening cages often reach up to greet me, but the shyer ones have a tendency to just freeze. It may be that the rabbit sees you as a predator, but rabbit predators come from both the air and the ground, so I don't know that you can avoid that. Either way, I find it it much nicer to just lift them up rather than having to chase them to the back of the cage and drag them out a front door. Also, to a dominant rabbit, a head-on approach from a front door can seem aggressive and can provoke an aggressive response, but coming down from above the rabbit can impress on the rabbit that it won't win this one.
With what rabbits by accident was saying though I thought maybe I should try them but you’re right, I really do want to be able to feel their amazingly soft fur. I don’t want to be that scared of them. Also the bucks I left in my top opening cage do stand up tall to smell me when I open their cage. I always thought that was really cute and funny, especially when their ears are all perked up straight. It seems I have two that freeze and don’t like to be touched and two that are pretty much like well I guess if you have to touch me I might as well boop you with my nose. I love those two that like to smell my hand. Luckily one is a boy and one is a girl so I was thinking about putting them together to maybe try and breed out the fearfulness a bit. I know most of it is just how much your around them but I feel like who the parents are matters as well.Celeste5
Member
This is really helpful! I’ll be sure to get them some little snacks and maybe just have them come to me first to get them. Thank you so much!
