English spot gold and chocolate cross

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MountainViewRabbitry

Washington Rabbit Rescue
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What will I get if I breed a gold with a chocolate? Chocolate carries black, blue, chocolate, lilac (At least it’s in the pedigree) gold is mostly golds and a few blacks. I’ve been hearing maybe torts? Maybe greys? Would it be better to hold off and breed to a blue??
 
What will I get if I breed a gold with a chocolate? Chocolate carries black, blue, chocolate, lilac (At least it’s in the pedigree) gold is mostly golds and a few blacks. I’ve been hearing maybe torts? Maybe greys? Would it be better to hold off and breed to a blue??
Your chocolate cannot carry black, so all the chocolate rabbit can give its kits is the allele for chocolate, denoted as <b>, a small letter indicating that it's recessive to black, which is denoted <B>, a capital letter indicating it's dominant. Even though there are blacks in its pedigree, the allele for black dropped out in your rabbit to make room for the two chocolate alleles <bb> that make it a chocolate. Chocolate is a self variety, so its genotype is <aabbC_D_E_>.

As far as I know, the gold variety in English Spot is a low-rufus orange, which is an agouti color with non-extension alleles blocking the dark ticking color of the agouti. Your gold may be black-based or chocolate-based; in essence, it can be <BB> <Bb> or <bb>. Given the blacks in its pedigree your gold is probably <A_B_C_D_ee>

So,
<aabbC_D_E_> x <A_B_C_D_ee>

Given those genotypes, you will probably get chestnut agoutis, which will look like grays but will probably not be correct. Genetically the gray English Spot may be a chestnut agouti - it is debatable - but its banding pattern is very unusual and may not just pop out from a gold... I can't say that for sure, though, since I've never bred either of these colors unique (or almost unique, in the case of gold) to English Spots.

You may very well get torts if your chocolate carries a hidden non-extension <e>. Torts are a showable color in English Spots.

You may get selfs if the gold carries a self <a> behind its agouti <A>. Those will probably include blacks, and maybe some chocolates if the gold carries a chocolate <b> behind its black <B>. There might also be blues and/or lilacs, if both rabbits carry a hidden dilute <d>.

If you're hoping to produce showable colors, it would be a better idea to breed your chocolate to another self color - black, blue, chocolate or lilac. Golds are best bred to other golds (some breeders don't mind adding an occasional black, but it seems to me that would increase your chances of torts down the line, and possibly muddy the desired clear gold color).
 
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Your chocolate cannot carry black, so all the chocolate rabbit can give its kits is the allele for chocolate, denoted as <b>, a small letter indicating that it's recessive to black, which is denoted <B>, a capital letter indicating it's dominant. Even though there are blacks in its pedigree, the allele for black dropped out in your rabbit to make room for the two chocolate alleles <bb> that make it a chocolate. Chocolate is a self variety, so its genotype is <aabbC_D_E_>.

As far as I know, the gold variety in English Spot is a low-rufus orange, which is an agouti color with non-extension alleles blocking the dark ticking color of the agouti. Your gold may be black-based or chocolate-based; in essence, it can be <BB> <Bb> or <bb>. Given the blacks in its pedigree your gold is probably <A_B_C_D_ee>

So,
<aabbC_D_E_> x <A_B_C_D_ee>

Given those genotypes, you will probably get chestnut agoutis, which will look like grays but will probably not be correct. Genetically the gray English Spot may be a chestnut agouti - it is debatable - but its banding pattern is very unusual and may not just pop out from a gold... I can't say that for sure, though, since I've never bred either of these colors unique (or almost unique, in the case of gold) to English Spots.

You may very well get torts if your chocolate carries a hidden non-extension <e>. Torts are a showable color in English Spots.

You may get selfs if the gold carries a self <a> behind its agouti <A>. Those will probably include blacks, and maybe some chocolates if the gold carries a chocolate <b> behind its black <B>. There might also be blues and/or lilacs, if both rabbits carry a hidden dilute <d>.

If you're hoping to produce showable colors, it would be a better idea to breed your chocolate to another self color - black, blue, chocolate or lilac. Golds are best bred to other golds (some breeders don't mind adding an occasional black, but it seems to me that would increase your chances of torts down the line, and possibly muddy the desired clear gold color).
How many kits does an English Spot normally have? I know there’s a range. How many are showable? I think you can breed basically any color of ES to any color from what I’ve heard. as long as it’s recognized.
 
How many kits does an English Spot normally have? I know there’s a range. How many are showable? I think you can breed basically any color of ES to any color from what I’ve heard. as long as it’s recognized.
I've not raised English Spots but most medium-sized rabbits have 6-8 kits per litter. It will depend to some extent on the characteristics of the particular genetic line your rabbits come from, as well as the age of the doe. They're not a dwarf breed, so you don't have to worry about peanuts.

English Spots are a broken colored breed, with the proper pattern resulting from a single copy of the broken gene En, so a show quality rabbit has a genotype of Enen. When you breed two Enen rabbits, the litter will be roughly 50% Enen (broken), 25% EnEn (charlie) and 25% enen (solid) kits. These are statistical projections so you may very well get different proportions of these markings in any particular litter. It is within the realm of possibility (though not likely) that you could get all brokens, all solids or all charlies.

Showable rabbits will only come from among the Enen kits; however, within that group , there may (probably will) be mismarked rabbits, further reducing the number of showable kits. Basically, if you're breeding a broken colored breed like English Spot, Checkered Giant, Rhinelander or Dwarf Papillon, you need to expect to produce a relatively high number of mismarked culls/pet-quality bunnies.

Since there are almost always mismarked culls in every litter, some broken breeders like to keep a solid sport to breed with a show-marked rabbit. This will result in approximately 50% brokens and 50% solids (same proportion of culls), but no charlies. Many breeders try to avoid producing charlies because the En gene, especially in the homozygous state EnEn, is associated with a health condition called megacolon. This is not only uncomfortable/sometimes fatal for the rabbit, but it often does not appear until later in life - which can be after you've sold the rabbit to someone as a pet. That is a bummer, to say the least. Not all charlies have this condition, but it is always a possibility waiting in the wings, so to speak.

As far as breeding any colors together, you can do so, of course. But if you want to maximize the number of showable kits, some crosses are not advisable.

Gray and gold, for example, are agouti colors that have requirements which are very specific to the English Spot breed, and crossing those with other colors (i.e. selfs) may end up diminishing those colors' quality in terms of the banding pattern (gray) or clarity (gold). Although I can see where crossing gold with self chocolate might be helpful in cleaning up smutty color, you'd probably chance making the gold color a little less deep and intense; you'd also eventually get chocolate agoutis and chocolate torts, neither of which are showable colors.

Similarly, breeding chocolate or dilute colors (blue, chocolate, or lilac) with gray, gold, or tort will, down the line, end up producing dilute and/or chocolate agoutis (i.e. opal, chocolate agouti, and/or lynx), dilute golds (aka cream), or off-colored torts (chocolate, blue or lilac torts, when only black torts are showable). And since all of these colors come from recessive genes, once you've got them in your line, it can be tough to get rid of them.
 
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