Fear vs. Practice how to balance info?

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LatchawBriarPatch

LatchawBriarPatch

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Hi, I am new to the rabbit world. We have been pet owners for a little over a month now. Starting out I was feeding an unlimited hay diet with oxbouro young rabbit formula. Yet, someone I follow on YouTube highly encourages NOT feeding hay unlimited because of parasites. Seems like a pretty good reason. My question, since I know many people feed hay......How do you deal with parasites if you get them from feeding hay, and does this happen regularly to everyone? I'm in the process of switching to a complete pellet diet mostly because of the cost.

On the same line of thinking, keeping your meat rabbit off the ground. The thought process is to keep them from getting parasites. Again, I know many people do give their rabbits extensive time on on the ground or even colonial raise them. How do you handle dealing with parasites if you get them or is the need to keep them off the ground over stated? Thank you in advance! I'm located in Ohio.
 

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I don't know the source of your information about feeding hay, but in my books feeding hay is one of the best things you can do for your rabbit. I've never heard that it brought with it a risk of parasites and I raised rabbits on a hay-based diet for over ten years. Certainly I never saw any significant sign of parasites in my rabbits.

Letting your rabbit exercise on the ground might be more risky, depending on where you live. My thinking -- unproved, so take it with a grain of salt -- is that risks increase the farther south you go. Winter weather puts the brakes on parasite breeding.

Ohio is not so different from Southern Ontario where I live. I did not usually let the rabbits on the ground, but I fed them foraged greens all season long. If they were going to get parasites, you'd think that I'd have encountered problems.

I did occasionally see a few nodules caused by coccidiosis in the liver of butchered meat rabbits, but it was slight and the rabbits were in good health.

Weigh the risks and decide for yourself, but be aware that many pet rabbit sites are inclined to overemphasize the dangers of certain practices. I'm still shaking my head over the "no hay" advice.

Your rabbit, by the way, is beautiful -- and I entirely understand you wanting the best for it.
 
That youtube info is not just nonsense, but, in my humble opinion, conterproductive and basicly BS. Slowing their guts down by not providing enough roughage is quite likely to cause problems, and if there were parasites in hay a single straw would suffice to infect the rabbit.

If parasites, like coccidia, are a problem very much depends on where you are, I guess warmth and humidity make things more difficult. Here in Austria, I have zero problems, and my rabbits are outdoors, spend the day outside in the garden, dig a lot, and so on - that's what rabbits evolved for here.

Getting information from the internet can be a challenge - lots of opinions, and those with wrong ones shout very loud to be heard. I would stick to sites with a lot of users, like forums, and not small facebook groups or even youtube. There is a lot of good info there, but it takes some basic knowledge to learn who can be trusted.

I think this is a very good site to read:
https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits
 
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Hey there, neighbor! We're in Kentucky and have been raising New Zealands for meat for about a year or so. I use the compressed bales of Timothy hay from Tractor Supply, at around $23 for a 50 pound bale (I think). I always have hay available for all rabbits using hay racks, and a bale lasts quite a while with our small 10-hole rabbitry. I don't track all that well, but I'd say a month or so?

We keep our rabbits in hanging wire cages to prevent them from getting any diseases or parasites from wild rabbits, but we did recently start giving them foraged weeds and branches off our property, which they love! I do still have concerns about doing this, but testimony from others on this site about feeding foraged weeds without issue encouraged me to give it a try! I may try to fence off an area next year to grow a forage patch that the wild bunnies can't get into, specifically for the stuff right on the ground - dandelion, plantain, clover, etc. It would make me feel better about it anyway!
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Preitler said:
That youtube info is not just nonsense, but, in my humble opinion, conterproductive and basicly BS. Slowing their guts down by not providing enough roughage is quite likely to cause problems, and if there were parasites in hay a single straw would suffice to infect the rabbit.

If parasites, like coccidia, are a problem very much depends on where you are, I guess warmth and humidity make things more difficult. Here in Austria, I have zero problems, and my rabbits are outdoors, spend the day outside in the garden, dig a lot, and so on - that's what rabbits evolved for here.

Getting information from the internet can be a challenge - lots of opinions, and those with wrong ones shout very loud to be heard. I would stick to sites with a lot of users, like forums, and not small facebook groups or even youtube. There is a lot of good info there, but it takes some basic knowledge to learn who can be trusted.

I think this is a very good site to read:
https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits
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Thank you. The only reason I considered the info is because she has been doing her rabbitry that way....on a complete pellet with unlimited hay only in certain life seasons for over like 15-30 year....I can't remember how long. Thanks for the imput.
 
Just because someone has raised rabbits successfully one way for many years does not necessarily mean that doing it a different way is going to cause problems. There are many valid methods of animal husbandry.

I fed a hay-based diet (alfalfa/grass-hay mix about 70/30, free choice) plus small amounts of whole grain and as much gathered forage as the season allowed. In winter, to replace the fresh greens, I fed root crops, cooked potato, pumpkin with seeds, vegetable trimmings, sprouted grain, dried gathered forage etc. as available. (If you want more information about the forage, see the Safe Plants List in the Natural Feeding forum.)

Many of the plants I fed are natural vermifuges:
Chenopodium album (lambsquarters)
Mentha piperita (peppermint) Not to pregnant or nursing does!
Rubus spp. (blackberry and raspberry relatives)
Symphytum officinale (comfrey),
Taraxacum officinale (common dandelion)
Urtica dioica (stinging nettle) Must be dried!

This may partially account for the success of my feeding regimen.
 
I think parasites from hay are pretty unlikely. However parasites from forage that is human delivered are equally unlikley unless you have an excessively large wild rabbit population.

Parasites from the ground are more likely IF you use just one piece of ground and it becomes polluted by excessive droppings. Most parasites that dwell in intestines use a fecal to oral route to complete their lifecycle, but where do they come from in the beginning?

There are various vectors, bird feces, fleas, rodent feces, cat feces, or sometimes flying insects. They can persist in the soil for a little while. A single parasite does not make an infestation however. Most animals can fight that off.

However, if all your food is contaminated with yesterday's droppings, you will be continually reinfected. The parasite population will grow, and you will have greater and greater issues.

I think avoiding hay is fairly ridiculous, and outright fear mongering in most areas of the world. As MaggieJ says feezing temperatures also reduce other parasite populations in temperate regions. The tropics are one of the most parasite loaded areas, if your youtuber is there they may have different experiences, but even there I am not aware of hay being a high risk.
 
Unless--if you fed hay on the ground and rabbits had only it as both bedding and food, then you might have issues? Most rabbits wont eat soiled hay, but if they are hungry enough they will eat whatever there is. Maybe that led to the (mistaken) assumption that hay causes parasites?
 
LatchawBriarPatch said:
Hi, I am new to the rabbit world. We have been pet owners for a little over a month now. Starting out I was feeding an unlimited hay diet with oxbouro young rabbit formula. Yet, someone I follow on YouTube highly encourages NOT feeding hay unlimited because of parasites. Seems like a pretty good reason. My question, since I know many people feed hay......How do you deal with parasites if you get them from feeding hay, and does this happen regularly to everyone? I'm in the process of switching to a complete pellet diet mostly because of the cost.

On the same line of thinking, keeping your meat rabbit off the ground. The thought process is to keep them from getting parasites. Again, I know many people do give their rabbits extensive time on on the ground or even colonial raise them. How do you handle dealing with parasites if you get them or is the need to keep them off the ground over stated? Thank you in advance! I'm located in Ohio.
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I have never heard that about parasites. You should give you rabbit unlimited hay. What is the Youtube channel name?
 
how to feed rabbits varies by the owner.

For instance. My feeding regime:

I feed pellets every night to my rabbits. A limited measured amount.
In the morning they either get: a grain mix, a decent handful of hay, leftover household apples/lettuce/bread crusts, or copious greens. Depends a lot on the season as I don't buy greens for my rabbits. :)

They rarely get hay more than twice a week and in the summer not at all.

They NEVER get on the ground time as I know that I have coccidia in the soil and that can live there forever. Any rabbit that escapes on me invariably gets ill with something.

A friend of mine
Feeds hay all the time, NEVER feeds greens, never allows on the ground time (ticks where she lives), and feeds a measured amount of pellets divided into two servings.

Another friend, never ever feed hay, only feeds pellets with unlimited access.

....
Can you get parasites from feeding hay? YES.
Wild rabbits can be running through that hayfield spreading whatever illness they have.
Mites can hide in it (depending on the type of hay).

----
There is risk in every method of feeding. It's a matter of weighing out the risks.
 
OK, I think this idea about parasites comes from a convoluted path regarding Angiostrongyliasis, also known as rat lungworm. Snails are known to be an intermediate host. Snails crawl on the grass leaving their slime trail. So of course their slime trail must be able to pass the lungworm eggs? I don't know about that being true but suspect there is no connection bewtween their alimentary system and their locomotive lubricant glands.

Nevertheless, if there were eggs (and it would not be limited to lungworm) they should be killed either by dehydration or fermentation. Not much hay that makes its way to rabbits either fresh or pelletized undergoes fermentation. Fermentation is for ruminants. However, all of it undergoes dehydration to some extant. Initially it is dehydrated in the field for a day or so after it is cut. It may dehydrate further in storage.

Now in survival classes we talk about such parasites because we teach grass can be used a macroscopic filter. As with all filter media it can be infected with just about anything. So, it should be washed and sterilized just like anything that will come in contact with your water. You guessed it, dehydration is a good method for that! .
 
LatchawBriarPatch said:
Hi, I am new to the rabbit world. We have been pet owners for a little over a month now. Starting out I was feeding an unlimited hay diet with oxbouro young rabbit formula. Yet, someone I follow on YouTube highly encourages NOT feeding hay unlimited because of parasites. Seems like a pretty good reason. My question, since I know many people feed hay......How do you deal with parasites if you get them from feeding hay, and does this happen regularly to everyone? I'm in the process of switching to a complete pellet diet mostly because of the cost.

On the same line of thinking, keeping your meat rabbit off the ground. The thought process is to keep them from getting parasites. Again, I know many people do give their rabbits extensive time on on the ground or even colonial raise them. How do you handle dealing with parasites if you get them or is the need to keep them off the ground over stated? Thank you in advance! I'm located in Ohio.
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Beautiful bunny! I have my rabbitry on a mostly pellet based diet with hay when I can afford it and fresh veggie scraps whenever I cook something (make sure they're bunny-safe!) I've never had parasite issues.

Keeping in mind this is personal opinion, and I hold nothing against the people. One thing I've learned is the internet likes to be extreme a lot HAHA not every source but 99% of who I've seen on YouTube and Google have some interesting information on rabbit care (like feeding rabbits cherry branches, which are actually toxic) or some say you *have* to do things a certain way, or you're not a good owner, but definitely a great idea to ask a few sources! This site has a lot of great wise rabbit breeders! Good luck with your bunny!!
 
We don't feed hay because it's too expensive ($52 a small bale which then mildews), but we do have lots of parasites since it never freezes here. So, instead of worrying about if parasites would appear on the hay (which I doubt, but we don't feed hay so what do I know) figure that if they do show up, what to do to get rid of them.

Ear and wool mites (we have angoras here) as far as I can tell can spontaneously appear out of thin air. However, (not to sound like a right wing conspiracy person or anything) Ivermectin can cure ear mites in one small application of a dab of Ivermectin pretty much anywhere on the rabbit. It also fixes sneezes in sheep, but that's a different application. Ivermectin is less than $10 for a tube of it at the feed store. It's actually a horse wormer so there's enough in the tube to get mites off of about a hundred rabbits.

Did the YouTube channel mention what sort of parasites are supposed to show up? Did they mention a cure of the parasites should they appear? At some point, if you keep rabbits long enough, there will be some sort of disease/parasite/flea/whatever to deal with. There's an online version of the Merck Veterinary Manual and many of the basic medicines are available at the feed stores. Keeping them healthy is easier than fixing them, but there's a lot of medical repairs that can be done with rabbits without the need to call in a veterinary. Vet costs have gotten crazy over the past few years and sometimes a recipe and a new rabbit is the only economically valid answer. The buns here are livestock, however, not pets.
 
hotzcatz said:
We don't feed hay because it's too expensive ($52 a small bale which then mildews), but we do have lots of parasites since it never freezes here. So, instead of worrying about if parasites would appear on the hay (which I doubt, but we don't feed hay so what do I know) figure that if they do show up, what to do to get rid of them.

Ear and wool mites (we have angoras here) as far as I can tell can spontaneously appear out of thin air. However, (not to sound like a right wing conspiracy person or anything) Ivermectin can cure ear mites in one small application of a dab of Ivermectin pretty much anywhere on the rabbit. It also fixes sneezes in sheep, but that's a different application. Ivermectin is less than $10 for a tube of it at the feed store. It's actually a horse wormer so there's enough in the tube to get mites off of about a hundred rabbits.

Did the YouTube channel mention what sort of parasites are supposed to show up? Did they mention a cure of the parasites should they appear? At some point, if you keep rabbits long enough, there will be some sort of disease/parasite/flea/whatever to deal with. There's an online version of the Merck Veterinary Manual and many of the basic medicines are available at the feed stores. Keeping them healthy is easier than fixing them, but there's a lot of medical repairs that can be done with rabbits without the need to call in a veterinary. Vet costs have gotten crazy over the past few years and sometimes a recipe and a new rabbit is the only economically valid answer. The buns here are livestock, however, not pets.
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Nobel-prize winning Ivermectin is one of the World Health Organization's "essential medicines". Humans have taken billions of doses. It comes from a microorganism in dirt. :) My favorite thing! I'm hoping I can just get it from going barefoot. There have been studies that show it has some anti-cancer properties as well.

Thanks for the info on the rabbits for ear mites. Wish I'd known that earlier, as one of the rabbits came with mites. However, olive oil did the trick. I also give it on my dog to avoid heartworms.

It seems to be a cure-all. Glad it was discovered!
 
It's a shame I can't actually meet people from The Internet :D, I think I would enjoy a beer with you.

I was barefoot for several years any time temperatures were above 10°C. Was working for a carny business with a Bungee Trampoline (which I designed and built, didn't invent it but I included some neat features) back then.
 
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I grow our own hay so cost no issue. I used to buy straw, and have found it can be riddled with red mites. My arms itch for days. I never bought that stuff again. They have hay for bedding, and hay for eating is up off ground in a wire rack. They are not interested in hay, as the green is full of nutrients right now.

I counter this parasitic invasion with a digging box filled with dirt to which i have added diotamacious earth. So rabbits dig and get it all over themselves. This kills a lot of parasites. Fleas, worms, mites etc.

I add ACV and garlic to the water supply as preventative for parasites n illness.

I use a tractor colony so move rabbits to a new area every few days. In hope of keeping parasites n odours at bay.

This is what other animals that live here have taught me. Newbie to meat rabbits caveat on this info.
 
Rabbits by Accident said:
Nobel-prize winning Ivermectin is one of the World Health Organization's "essential medicines". Humans have taken billions of doses. It comes from a microorganism in dirt. :) My favorite thing! I'm hoping I can just get it from going barefoot. There have been studies that show it has some anti-cancer properties as well.

Thanks for the info on the rabbits for ear mites. Wish I'd known that earlier, as one of the rabbits came with mites. However, olive oil did the trick. I also give it on my dog to avoid heartworms.

It seems to be a cure-all. Glad it was discovered!
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Yes, my first case of ear mites I used homemade garlic infused olive oil. It worked but takes several applications and my bun started heading to the back of the cage when he saw me coming. So the next time I used ivermectin. One and done (second app 2 weeks later if using topically). I like to go natural when it works, have no issue with regular meds when necessary or preferable. And yeah, ivermectin is one useful drug.
 
HTAcres said:
Yes, my first case of ear mites I used homemade garlic infused olive oil. It worked but takes several applications and my bun started heading to the back of the cage when he saw me coming. So the next time I used ivermectin. One and done (second app 2 weeks later if using topically). I like to go natural when it works, have no issue with regular meds when necessary or preferable. And yeah, ivermectin is one useful drug.
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Well, after much research, I think of Ivermectin as a natural remedy :)
 

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