ProBios / Benebac

I've been seeing these products mentioned. I need to know:

1. When/Why do you give
2. How do you give
3. How often do you give
4. Is there any difference between these products and if so, what and does it make a difference...

Info people, I need info....

BeneBac is just a shortened version of "beneficial bacteria" and is a brand name. ProBios--is Pro-biotic bacteria-- or-- "beneficial bacteria"...

many people feed it when the animal is stressed-- to replace the bacteria lost from the digestive system due to diarrhea, use of oral antibiotics (antibiotics are not totally specific in their target choices.) They are given orally-- the only way to getr the bacteria in the gut---

Now, if you have none of this on hand, and you feel the gut flora needs to be replaced, one CAN make a slurry of the cecatropes from another, healthy rabbit, and feed by syringe.. really-- it works...

Frosted Rabbits":1wub8u7u said:

one CAN make a slurry of the cecatropes from another, healthy rabbit, and feed by syringe.. really-- it works...

Click to expand...

Okay, that was gross! :x

But, the rest was helpful. But, I need more info...

Per google search:
Probios® Microbial Products contain guaranteed levels of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum.

Small Animal Bene-Bac (Beneficial Bacteria): Dried lactobacillus casei, dried L. fermentum, dried L. acidophilus, dried L. plantarum, dried enterococcus faecium, dried bifidobacterium bifidum, dried pediococcus acidilactici, sunflower oil, sucrose, silicon dioxide, dextrose, artificial color.

So it appears the products are not identical in Beneficials contained in them (close but the BeneBac appears to have a few extras--plus extra sweetner and colorings). I tried googling for what the main beneficial microbes are in rabbit intestines but wasn't able to find the answer in a quick search. I don't have time for a PubMed search at the moment. Has anyone done such a search or know what the preferred population of "good guys" is in the rabbit's stomach?

The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if the desired good guys are present in either raw apple cider vinegar or kombucha. If so, then my next question would be whether it would be good to supplement with either product on a particular schedule or only during times of stress? :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop:

All the "actobaccillus" are related to milk--you will recognize the acidophilus as being important culture for yogurt. the casei is a protein, and heaven help me if I can remember the plantarum, so--escription and Significance



The benebac was specifically formulated, and is used widely in animal rehab centers mainly because the types of bacteria match what is normal in the gut of wild animals--less milk based, more based on other digestion p[rocesses--
L. plantarum is a gram positive bacterium that is found in a variety of niches. These niches include dairy, meat, and much vegetable fermentations, it is also found in the human gastrointestinal tract. It is a facultative heterofermentative lactic acid bacterium that utilizes an extensive range of fermentatable carbon sources. Lactic acid bacteria are Gram-positive and they are non-spore forming, fermentative bacteria that grow anaerobically. The main function of these bacteria is the fermentative conversion of sugars present in raw materials into lactic acid. L. plantarum also produces anti-microbial peptides and exopolysaccharides. It has the ability to maintain a pH gradient between the inside and outside of the cell in the presence of large amounts of acetate or lactate. (5) L. plantarum is one of the most common microbes used as a silage inoculant. Silage is a fermented fodder that can be fed to ruminants or used as a biofuel feedstock for anaerobic digesters

Frecs":gxr7cuz1 said:

Frosted Rabbits":gxr7cuz1 said:

one CAN make a slurry of the cecatropes from another, healthy rabbit, and feed by syringe.. really-- it works...

Click to expand...

Okay, that was gross! :x

But, the rest was helpful. But, I need more info...

Per google search:
Probios® Microbial Products contain guaranteed levels of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum.

Small Animal Bene-Bac (Beneficial Bacteria): Dried lactobacillus casei, dried L. fermentum, dried L. acidophilus, dried L. plantarum, dried enterococcus faecium, dried bifidobacterium bifidum, dried pediococcus acidilactici, sunflower oil, sucrose, silicon dioxide, dextrose, artificial color.

So it appears the products are not identical in Beneficials contained in them (close but the BeneBac appears to have a few extras--plus extra sweetner and colorings). I tried googling for what the main beneficial microbes are in rabbit intestines but wasn't able to find the answer in a quick search. I don't have time for a PubMed search at the moment. Has anyone done such a search or know what the preferred population of "good guys" is in the rabbit's stomach?

The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if the desired good guys are present in either raw apple cider vinegar or kombucha. If so, then my next question would be whether it would be good to supplement with either product on a particular schedule or only during times of stress? :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop:

Click to expand...

I use the equine formula Probios and we give it during any time of stress, weaning, moving cages, new animal, first sign of GI issues....we buy the big tube that is dispensed using a caulking gun. I just squeeze a blob out, and either smear it on their lips or on the edge of the feeder. Some of them will eat it right off the tip of the tube!

many people just use ACV [apple cider vinegar] with the mother in the water all the time for the probiotic benefits.

Since the ACV was getting pretty expensive, I use about 1 pt/day for my bunz, I just started using and brewing kombucha, which also has probiotics, or beneficial bacteria. I believe that many people use it for animals [although I've read that cats shouldn't use it].

I've been using it for about 2 months now and most of the herd seems to be doing great.

caroline":21ezy32p said:

many people just use ACV [apple cider vinegar] with the mother in the water all the time for the probiotic benefits.

Since the ACV was getting pretty expensive, I use about 1 pt/day for my bunz, I just started using and brewing kombucha, which also has probiotics, or beneficial bacteria. I believe that many people use it for animals [although I've read that cats shouldn't use it].

I've been using it for about 2 months now and most of the herd seems to be doing great.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about the use of raw ACV and/or kombucha with rabbits. I used to brew Kombucha and could start it up again. Have you tried water kefir on the bunnies?

OK, not to gross anyone out, but ... here are some observations I have made over the past 2 years.

Fill up a water bowl and what is the first thing that a bunny does? They get a poop or two in it. So, I started wondering "why" and eventually quit being so OCD about emptying out the poops and just topping off the water to see what happened. Well, I am sure you can imagine that eventually the first poop(s) melted. That is when I noticed a couple of fresh new poops would show up in the bowl.

So, combining that with my opinion about how baby bunnies browse on mom's poop patty that she starts in the cage, or the poops she leaves in the front of the nest box, I started bringing in some of mom's poops for the water dish in the house for the babies. I have had NO WEANING ENTERITIS at all for the past 4 litters. Right now, I have 2 litters (one 4 weeks old today, one 3 weeks old today) that have been eating for 2 and 1 weeks respectively. The 4 week old litter just finished weaning today so 4 of the 8 have not had any milk for the past 5 days, and the other 4 "came off" one each day this week.

The way I see it, in the wild, mother supplies all the necessary means for her kits to wean successfully and continue to thrive, so why should I need to spend money buying products to replace what mom provides naturally?

AnnClaire":1e0xhsxs said:

OK, not to gross anyone out, but ... here are some observations I have made over the past 2 years.

Fill up a water bowl and what is the first thing that a bunny does? They get a poop or two in it. So, I started wondering "why" and eventually quit being so OCD about emptying out the poops and just topping off the water to see what happened. Well, I am sure you can imagine that eventually the first poop(s) melted. That is when I noticed a couple of fresh new poops would show up in the bowl.

So, combining that with my opinion about how baby bunnies browse on mom's poop patty that she starts in the cage, or the poops she leaves in the front of the nest box, I started bringing in some of mom's poops for the water dish in the house for the babies. I have had NO WEANING ENTERITIS at all for the past 4 litters. Right now, I have 2 litters (one 4 weeks old today, one 3 weeks old today) that have been eating for 2 and 1 weeks respectively. The 4 week old litter just finished weaning today so 4 of the 8 have not had any milk for the past 5 days, and the other 4 "came off" one each day this week.

The way I see it, in the wild, mother supplies all the necessary means for her kits to wean successfully and continue to thrive, so why should I need to spend money buying products to replace what mom provides naturally?

Click to expand...

I had noticed how they (those with water crocks instead of bottles) always add a poop or two to their water. The crock is not in the corner where they poop so...why? and I mean, they can't accidently do this...they have to lift their butt and position to do it. Little Biscuitt, my young buck replacing Skipp, even deposits a poop or two into his feed bowl...again, not something that he can just "accidently" accomplish. Well, if it makes their immune systems stronger...so be it.

For me, it all started with my first doe to kindle. She built a poop pad, I cleaned it off, she built another, I cleaned it off and stuck around doing some chores so I could watch. She went over and ate some pellets when I knew she had eaten not much earlier. She then drank a bunch of water and laid down for about an hour. Then she got up and started nosing around in her bathroom corner. Finally, she sort of wriggled herself into just the right position and started wriggling her back feet. When she moved off, she immediately turned around and examined what she had done. Yep, a new poop pad was getting started. And, no they weren't cecals, just regular poops. I left this one alone and watched it over the next few weeks. That is when I saw the kits come out of the nest box and actually go over to the poop pad and nibble/lick. Reminded me of the Animal Planet show about Echo the Elephant and her herd and them talking about the baby elephants doing this. I also remember grand dad talking about it and seeing some of the young colts nibbling on the mare's poops too.

I still wanted to be sure, so the second litter, I kept them completely away from the poops, but did start them on the oatmeal and hay. That was the litter I lost one to enteritis that I believe was brought on by getting chilled at 5 weeks old. Since then, all kits have access to mom's poops, and no more enteritis.

Now, that is cool! I'm glad you were able to observe that behavior. Good to know.

AnnClaire":wy5fxqrk said:

For me, it all started with my first doe to kindle. She built a poop pad, I cleaned it off, she built another, I cleaned it off and stuck around doing some chores so I could watch. She went over and ate some pellets when I knew she had eaten not much earlier. She then drank a bunch of water and laid down for about an hour. Then she got up and started nosing around in her bathroom corner. Finally, she sort of wriggled herself into just the right position and started wriggling her back feet. When she moved off, she immediately turned around and examined what she had done. Yep, a new poop pad was getting started. And, no they weren't cecals, just regular poops. I left this one alone and watched it over the next few weeks. That is when I saw the kits come out of the nest box and actually go over to the poop pad and nibble/lick. Reminded me of the Animal Planet show about Echo the Elephant and her herd and them talking about the baby elephants doing this. I also remember grand dad talking about it and seeing some of the young colts nibbling on the mare's poops too.

I still wanted to be sure, so the second litter, I kept them completely away from the poops, but did start them on the oatmeal and hay. That was the litter I lost one to enteritis that I believe was brought on by getting chilled at 5 weeks old. Since then, all kits have access to mom's poops, and no more enteritis.

Click to expand...

I am so glad you shared this. I have a first time doe that I think is doing this.

In one corner of her cage, there is all of a sudden poop building up. We have wire bottoms. We have never had a problem with poop building up in her cage. I thought it was the shavings from her nest box that she kept emptying until she actually kindled. I thought the shavings were just blocking the wire enough that a few got caught and then it started to build up.

On Monday, I cleaned up her cage and got the shavings and built up poop taken care of. On Tuesday, I noticed more poop built up in the corner, but no shavings to blame it on. I remembered what you had said about the poo pad and am leaving it. Hopefully it helps. We have been so cold and the kits are going to need anything that can help them.

OneAcreFarm said:

I use the equine formula Probios and we give it during any time of stress, weaning, moving cages, new animal, first sign of GI issues....we buy the big tube that is dispensed using a caulking gun. I just squeeze a blob out, and either smear it on their lips or on the edge of the feeder. Some of them will eat it right off the tip of the tube!

Click to expand...

Hi,

have you used this with any rabbit when you noticed onset of diarrhea? My rabbit is a juvenile— about 7-8 months. She is very much on the smaller side. This past week she was left is someone’s care when I went out of town for work. I came home and noticed she was skinnier by a noticeable amount. Although, that might be in part due to the fact the vet put her on a hay only diet. Pellets were causing bloat. I pile the hay everywhere to ensure she always has food. But when I went out of town they didn’t give her enough hay I suspect. I also came home to her house disgusting. Poo and pee everywhere. Nothing was cleaned for a week. So it’s the weekend and holiday. Several vets I called don’t have a rabbit vet in right now. My rabbit is acting completely fine and eating normal. And her poo is returning to normal throughout the day as I have returned her to her normal clean environment and fed her thoroughly— though the poop is a bit smaller than normal. But I suspect she’s getting back to normal. I’m trying to follow my gut here.
Would you feed your rabbit bene bac in this situation?
Thanks for the info!! Appreciate it! I love her so much. Her name is Francine Freckles. She has little freckles all over her face.

The pH of an adult rabbit stomach is about 2. VERY acidic.

I wonder two things about giving probiotics to rabbits:
1). Does it survive the rabbit's stomach acid?
2). Assuming a few bacteria survive the stomach, are we even close to providing the correct bacteria for a rabbit's gut?

Victoriat4 said:

Hi,

have you used this with any rabbit when you noticed onset of diarrhea? My rabbit is a juvenile— about 7-8 months. She is very much on the smaller side. This past week she was left is someone’s care when I went out of town for work. I came home and noticed she was skinnier by a noticeable amount. Although, that might be in part due to the fact the vet put her on a hay only diet. Pellets were causing bloat. I pile the hay everywhere to ensure she always has food. But when I went out of town they didn’t give her enough hay I suspect. I also came home to her house disgusting. Poo and pee everywhere. Nothing was cleaned for a week. So it’s the weekend and holiday. Several vets I called don’t have a rabbit vet in right now. My rabbit is acting completely fine and eating normal. And her poo is returning to normal throughout the day as I have returned her to her normal clean environment and fed her thoroughly— though the poop is a bit smaller than normal. But I suspect she’s getting back to normal. I’m trying to follow my gut here.
Would you feed your rabbit bene bac in this situation?
Thanks for the info!! Appreciate it! I love her so much. Her name is Francine Freckles. She has little freckles all over her face.

Click to expand...

I use white oak bark tea on myself as a diarrhea remedy and it works fast. Been using it for years when needed. I wonder if giving a white oak branch to a rabbit to chew on would work for them. I know some folks say not to give oak to rabbits but I read where a small animal vet said it was only the wilting leaves that was a problem for rabbits. Fresh or dried leaves and branches were OK. I can't remember what he said about acorns.