Mishap: Doe maybe bred right after kindling

Preitler · May 10, 2015

Hi,

my black doe kindled on April 29th, came home from work and noticed two kits outside of the nestbox, to fix this and to inspect the nest I let both does out of this hutch - I had not noticed that my buck had torn out a grate at the upper story of his hutch and jumped down from 1,5m sometimes during the day :x

About half a minute later I noticed her licking another rabbits face, took me a moment to realise that that wasn't her daughter but the buck (same colours).

Half a minute, that's ages, their personal record for getting it done is about 10 seconds :shock: . I'm not sure, but maybe I'll get another litter end of month. After grabbing the buck and stuffing him into his hutch he contendly cleaned his privy parts :? . And after two weeks the doe seems somewhat exhausted, doesn't leave the hutch much, maybe it's just nursing 9 kits, but I fear there is more...

What to do? I guess I should wean and seperate the older litter, but when? Maybe with their big sister (8 months)? The last one I kept with the black doe did a really great job as big sister, cuddling, grooming and showing the ropes...
What if it was false alarm (there is still hope)? Bring them back?

They are still so small, and just risking a peek out of the nestbox...

Preitler

MaggieJ · May 10, 2015

In a colony, it is quite common for a doe to be bred immediately after kindling. In normal conditions it should not hurt her or the existing kits. You will want to supplement the doe with some extras perhaps and encourage early weaning by offering the kits hay and kitchen oatmeal (the rolled oats you would cook for oatmeal porridge, but serve them dry and uncooked.) The kitchen oatmeal is very good for the doe too.

Keep an eye on the doe and kits. She will become cross with them as she approaches her due date - if she is pregnant. She will likely wean them fully before the second litter arrives. At four weeks, they should be fine, but they may be a little slower in growth.

If the doe gets aggressive with them, you will have little choice but to remove them to a separate cage, with or without an older rabbit to guide them.

Be sure she has a nest box a few days before the due date, even if you are not sure she is pregnant.

the reluctant farmer · May 10, 2015

Preitler, I seem to remember just reading about something like this. I'll search to see if I can find it. I would suggest keeping the babies nursing up to four weeks if at all possible. If she is pregnant, she might dry up on her own before birthing. Make sure the mama has good quality food with enough protein, or supplement with oats or old fashioned oatmeal, chunks of sweet potato, or a tablespoon of black oil sunflower seeds.

That is an incredibly cute kit, by the way!

Ah, Maggie beat me to it--and she is right, as usual!

karenl · May 11, 2015

We had that happen to our mini lops we just moved them out a few days before she kindled with 2nd litter and both litters were great <br /><br /> -- Mon May 11, 2015 8:39 pm -- <br /><br /> We had that happen to our mini lops we just moved them out a few days before she kindled with 2nd litter and both litters were great

Truckinguy · May 11, 2015

Yup, in my colony I've seen Fred trying to mount his does as they're trying to give birth and I just had a litter 31 days after the last one. Both litters are doing fine. I have pellets available full time and four weeks is plenty of time for the kits to be self weaned. The doe will be a bit aggressive toward the older litter but just to chase them away from the nest where the new litter is. I've never had any injuries related to having two litters in the same area and the older litters are always gone by 10-12 weeks anyway.

I've had quite a few back to back litters here and never any problems with weaning or overly aggressive behavior. It can be a bit wearing on the doe after a while, though.

Preitler · May 11, 2015

Thanks, that's all very reassuring. Need to get the new, bigger hutches ready...

She did never wean early, sometimes even after seperating the bucklings the does got milk and grew faster than their silblings. It was a funny sight, the nestbox overstuffed with rabbits, limbs sticking out everywhere and noises like a fight.

Beside lots of greens and hay the doe gets pellets mixed with oatmeal, a little hard bread, cooked potatoes and some walnuts. Luckily the other doe doesnt like nuts and potatoes, or she would need to roll sideways to get somewhere by now.

Need to weigh the kits, seems they are very different. Got goatmilk at the supermarket, maybe I try to feed some just to learn how that works.

Preitler

Susie570 · May 13, 2015

If these are just meat rabbits, experiment away.

I don't know if it's a good idea to feed goat's milk to any valuable buns though. I've read about rabbits having some bad reactions to it and would only consider it an emergency measure to feed starving kits.

MaggieJ · May 13, 2015

Susie570":4vngfpzj said:
If these are just meat rabbits, experiment away. I don't know if it's a good idea to feed goat's milk to any valuable buns though. I've read about rabbits having some bad reactions to it and would only consider it an emergency measure to feed starving kits.

I know cow's milk can be hard for rabbits to digest, but I've never heard that about goat's milk . . . It is a standard ingredient in formula recipes for rabbit kits. Do you remember where you read that, Susie?

Susie570 · May 13, 2015

MaggieJ":1bjbrvnh said:
Susie570":1bjbrvnh said:

If these are just meat rabbits, experiment away. I don't know if it's a good idea to feed goat's milk to any valuable buns though. I've read about rabbits having some bad reactions to it and would only consider it an emergency measure to feed starving kits.

Click to expand...

I know cow's milk can be hard for rabbits to digest, but I've never heard that about goat's milk . . . It is a standard ingredient in formula recipes for rabbit kits. Do you remember where you read that, Susie?

Just some folks on here have had issues with their kits after feeding goat's milk... I don't know if it actually had to do with the goats milk, or something else. Remember the incident with the goats who have had supplements and it was harming the kits? That sort of thing worries me. But then, I admit to being a WORRY WART!!!!

so...

Preitler · May 25, 2015

Hi,

as far as I read copper sulfide given the goats was suspected as cause for these problems.
EDIT: Link:
baby-rabbits-dying-why-and-how-do-i-stop-it-t24804.html

Anyway I didn't get much formula into that little bunny, taking some kits out for a feeding actually did help more. He's fine now, a little smaller, but catching up. Big sister is great with the kits.

Well, it's day 26 for the doe, and the last two weeks I thought it must have been a near miss, was agile, happy, nursing well. But look at her waistline now, looks like she swallowed a frisbee whole :? , she seems tired the last two days, prefers to stay in the hutch or returning soon, and nursing 9 she cant be fat.

No nestbuilding efforts till now. I wonder if I should wean that litter now, wait, or wean just the bigger kits now and put them with their big sister to another hutch...

MamaSheepdog · May 25, 2015

You're right, she does look pregnant, Preitler. I would definitely move the kits out to give her a few days break. If she is pregnant, she likely has stopped nursing the kits anyway.

I have never tried putting young kits with an older doe, but you can try it. I know that some people have does (or bucks) that will happily share their space with weanlings. Just watch her for any signs of aggression toward the kits. In fact, it might be better to switch her into the cage with the kits (so she wont try to protect HER territory) and move the mama into her hutch if possible.

Susie570":3azcaans said:
Just some folks on here have had issues with their kits after feeding goat's milk... I don't know if it actually had to do with the goats milk, or something else. Remember the incident with the goats who have had supplements and it was harming the kits?

The copper poisoning was an isolated incident, and not something that I think we will see very often. KMR (kitten milk replacer) and cow's milk are the ones that cause problems. In fact, KMR even gives kittens diarrhea, so I always mixed goat milk with it to counter the effect.

Preitler · May 30, 2015

They all live together in one big hutch, so Big Sister and kits would move to the grow out hutch. Most times I keep one young doe with the old one, I just like how they interact, and I think they like it. Never was a problem with a new litter, big sister was a little bit startled at first but never any kind of aggression (I'll never forget her look when she got into the nestbox and had 9 kits trying to suckle, stood there frozen with eyes like melons

) . Normally I sell these does with 6-8 months.

This one has the same character as her mother, I think it's a keeper. My grey doe has serious eye problems, doesn't get better, I'll give the vet one chance, but i'm not optimistic (even if it heals I would keep none of her offspring), so a replacement that I can keep together with my black doe would be great.

-- Sat May 30, 2015 4:18 pm --

Hi,

I started to doubt her pregnancy again, but yesterday I noticed a mood change. She started to shoo the kits around, and there was a higher overall stress level, so I moved Big Sister and 5 kits to the growout hutch. Right now she is pulling fur in earnest, so I moved the rest - can't be long anymore.

opcorn:

Preitler

MaggieJ · May 30, 2015

It certainly sounds as though she is pregnant and getting ready to kindle. Hope all goes smoothly! :good-luck:

Mishap: Doe maybe bred right after kindling

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