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Already a bad day: Final update

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Already a bad day: Final update

Post Number:#1  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:08 am


This issue is being worked out as I type, but I really have to rant because, as the title says, it's only 8:30 am and I'm having a bad day. So just over a month ago my fiance convinced me to let us take in a stray dog. One of my issues that I had from the get go is that she's a small dog and I'm a large dog person. My boxador pup is extremely well behaved. Then over the month we have been trying to house train this tiny thing since she wasn't. She still isn't house trained and she's not even a young dog so I'm not sure she will ever train. This little brain dead dog has decided the outside is too nice to go to the bathroom in, and inside the house is better. We have let her be outside all frickin day just to have her come in and poop in the house. We've done every house training trick we know and it hasn't worked. I'm getting fed up with having to watch my step inside my home. Then there is the issue of her not listening, running off any chance she gets, digging INTO the couch stuffing, and thieving food off plates as well as garbage. So going back to this morning, I put her outside for an hour while I did indoor morning chores such as inside rabbit care, cat care, reptile care, ect. I swap the dogs out when I go to take care of my outdoor rabbits. I come back inside within 5 minutes and she's pooped in the house again. I grab her to fuss at her for it (she is also a squealer when scruffed) and she starts squealing. This is 10 minutes before I have to leave before I'm late, and I still hadn't eaten breakfast, so I don't have time to clean it up, but I could still show her it's bad. I set her down (still holding her so she doesn't run) and I fuss at her for it. She proceeds to pee herself and then roll in it. Then she comes and rub/rolls on me. So I have to leave, my last pair of clean jeans are covered in dog pee, the dog herself is covered in pee, and I still have to get the other dog back inside because she had finished doing her business outside. We also crate our dogs because my boxador has separation anxiety and I don't trust the little one. So I put the tiny dog in her crate, I get my big one inside ( luckily I've taught her that "go to your room" means to get in her crate as quickly as possible) she is in her crate, I start running late, I smell like pee, but I have to leave. So now I'm stuck at school until 6 pm because of classes, a group project meeting, and a club meeting, and I smell like dog pee. Im also very hungry because I didn't get my breakfast, but I also won't get a chance to eat the entire time I'm here. :evil:
Last edited by TeaTimeBunnies on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#2  Unread postby MaggieJ » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:05 am


This is going to sound tough and callous, and it is.

If your fiance wants this dog, he needs to take full responsibility for her care/clean up.

If he can't/won't do that, I'd insist he find a way to get rid of her.

If this is a deal-breaker for your relationship, ask yourself seriously if you're wiling to see this kind of thing repeated in endless variations throughout your years together.

I was going to apologize for being too blunt, but on second thought, I don't think I will.

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#3  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:53 am


I told him that he has a month of training the dog, and if she shows no improvement by the end of the month she is gone, if there is improvement he has another month to improve, but if she is not fully trained by February or her improvement stops she is gone. His other option to gone is moving her permanently outside. He has agreed to the terms. If this dog is gotten rid if though, he has a 2 month wait period for re adjustment, but I will allow him to bring a PUPPY into the house, but no more small dogs as I will likely never get along with a small dog
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#4  Unread postby Harelady » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:19 pm


This is going to sound a bit harsh but scruffing a dog is an ineffective method of dealing with this problem. Since it scares the dog ruining your relationship and the dog has no idea why you mad. You can only correct a dog when it is doing the act not afterwards. Dogs live in the moment so you only have a few seconds to correct for them to associate the act with punishment.

You need to treat the dog like you would a puppy. It has a habit of going in the house and habits are hard to break. I would start with kennelling the dog when you cannot watch it. Make sure the kennel is small enough that he cannot go in the kennel and still have a place to sleep. Take it outside every couple of hours and praise when it goes outside. Only consistent training will potty train him so you both need willing to do this.

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#5  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:54 pm


I understand where you are coming from harelady, but I must respectfully disagree with you on those points. The first being that dogs view scruffing as an agressive behavior and are scared by it. Mother dogs scruff pups to carry them from place to place so I really cannot understand how they would find it an act of aggression. This is also why I have an issue with her squealing when scruffed. A mother dog would not hesitate to leave behind a pup that squeals because they are problematic and dangerous to the rest of the litter. Humans look over that often, and it has been found that squealers learn slower and are way more problematic. I also have a very different and very personal inside look into the minds of dog that I truly wish not to bring up as it was a very hard personal time in my life. That being said dogs remember very well what goes on. Especially within the past hour, so getting onto her when it was within 5 minutes of her doing it was still effective. If you watch dogs as well they often know when they have done something that angered or will anger you hours after doing it, I have watched my dog be guilty, and put herself in a time out because I walked near something that was done while I was away. I hadn't even found it yet at that point. I also personally do not like tiny dogs and truly do not wish to have a relationship with this dog. She is my fiance's dog. The issues I listed before are those that she has done to him or the house. We have attempted the praising method most, but it does not seem she understands we are praising her for going outside, and that we are simply happy about something. As I also stated above we do crate the dog when we are not around, but we also do not constantly hover over the dog, and she takes any moment she gets. My biggest issue is that over a month's time of training she has has NO improvement and has not picked up any if the training. I am too busy of a person to deal with even live with a dog that will not even progress with training in over a month. I understand what you are telling me as I have been told this before, and that my training methods are flawed. However my boxador pup, whom I trained on my own, I trained the exact same way. We got her at 6 weeks. She house trained by 8 weeks. She learned "sit, stay, and come" by 9 weeks. She learned "go to your room" and "wait" by 10 weeks. She has learned various other commands since. I scruffed her for various things then and now, and she has the most respect for me compared to anyone else around her. I struggle to think of them living in the now when they remember those commands as well as various other words, as well as with that personal experience I do not wish to discuss. I again say these things with the most respect to you, but, from my life experiences, I simply cannot agree
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Prisma » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:45 pm


Scruffing a dog does no damage, as TeaTime already said...if it was a momma dog or another dog disciplining/moving a pup then it would not be a question. Dogs are dogs, not humans. If dogs just lived in the now, they would not remember people that mistreated them years after being relocated nor lost ones remembering their owners after not seeing them for months even years some times. They do not just live in the now, they have very good memories...otherwise even simple commands would be impossible.

Given the circumstances of the dog, I wonder if there are any physical/mental health issues? A great many times these small dogs do not know how to be dogs because they are NEVER allowed to be dogs, then when some thing like dumping happens they are at a loss and are on a complete roller coaster.

I would definitely make him take care of the dog, I'd be raving mad by now. Either take care of or she goes now. Helping is one thing, but I do not think he realized what rehabbing a dumped dog is like. You have to start from square one. Chances are this dog was treated like a kid, doesn't understand what happened nor why it is being put in its place now. Some times it takes a month, some times it can take MUCH longer (6-8 months, a year and half being longest I've had issues with and that was solely BECAUSE of a bad helper).

I get dump dogs on and off where living unfortunately ugh, I'm not an expert but dumped dogs are a huge drain...I try not to deal with any dumped dogs any more unless they just don't have any other possibles to a new home. I just do not have the health to do so and they are a constant clean up need and mental fight.

Getting her on a schedule can help which you may already be trying to do but have to be consistent, he needs to step up again. Specific feed and water, only give about 15-10 mins to let chow down. After that straight outside (do not let back in until goes). If they potty inside, straight back outside and leave them for a while if can. There is a good chance the dog was taught to use pee pads or newspaper inside (see it all the time) and that's why she's doing that. IF you want to see, place a pee pad down. If uses without problem...well reverse training one to go outside completely I have never been successful at. Exercise at a certain time, water break again at a certain time, and bed at a certain time.
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#7  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:35 pm


We did consider her having been trained to a pee pad Prisma, and so we did try it. She refused to use it and still went elsewhere. He has agreed to the terms I set. I made them reasonable too. I'm not asking for full training in a month, just for progress. I wouldn't be surprised if squealer pups do have some kind of mental illness that cause such a dramatic reaction to be scruffed. That being said she might have a mental illness
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#8  Unread postby WVForestGirl » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:23 am


I'm not sure if this applies, but I have a small dog from the pound who was a stray. She is incredibly food driven and it turns out that every time she was out in the yard she would gobble down every pile of poop from the other dogs that she could find. :x
She would then 'reprocess' all this material and deposit it all over the house. She almost ended up back at the pound but then we started putting a basket muzzle on her every time she went outside. Cleared it right up; her guts just couldn't handle all that bulk.
Obviously your pup has other problems, too, but I just thought I'd throw this out there.
Of course, one of my other pound puppies mislearned her house training lessons and now will not poop if I can see her, even outside. ;) it's hard to figure out what's going on in their little heads sometimes, and it's really hard to maintain patience, too. I hope your bf has luck training her over the next month.

**edited for typo

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#9  Unread postby TornadoRed » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:09 am


I agree with everyone, your fiance should be working on this dog. I currently have 3 dumped/rehab dogs. One is a little rat, 22 lbs of poop. He does not 'do his thing' in the house, anymore.

But try this.

Get a leash/lead and a harness. The leash needs to be just long enough that you can do anything you need to do inside and outside with the dog almost but not quite under your feet. Put the harness and leash on the dog and where you go she goes.

She needs to go everywhere at home, on the leash with you to: 1) get used to you, 2) get used to what you, do 3) understand her new environment on her own 4 feet, 4) feel safe - probably for the first time in her life.

Get a pocket full of treats, I use cheap hot dogs cut into rounds then quartered. Put it in a sandwich bag in your barn coat pocket. (don't forget about them...done that...ewe)

You will have to pay attention at first, the little rat will eventually try to pee/poop right next to you. As soon as you see this grab her and go immediately outside and don't stop tell you get to the area you want her to always pee/poop in. Drop her and wait. She will not pee/poop the first time. Give her 3 to 5 minutes (if you can) then bring her inside and crate her.

Wait at least an hour, no matter how much she screams and whines, after about an hour she should have quiet all that fussing. Then put her on the leash and go outside to 'the spot'. Give her at least 5 minutes. IF she does her thing she gets praise, a treat, even a game (ball) or just a lot of patting. then go do what ever you need to do, keep her on the leash and with you. This will not be a quick fix, but shouldn't take more than a month, which is a really long time to clean up after a dog, I know.

She needs to stay with you at all times, when she it not with you she is in her crate. This sounds harsh, but she has to earn her house freedom. And you are right, dogs learn and remember. They are not goldfish. Don't let her out of her crate when she is fussing, she doesn't need to 'go' she wants freedom, she needs to earn it. When she stops fussing, wait 5 minutes this re-enforces the 'no fussing when in bed rule', then with the leash on take her over to the spot. Give her 5 minutes, IF she doesn't 'go' she goes back in her crate. Eventually she WILL figure it out.

She needs to see you as someone who has habits and routines and is consistent about applying the rules. She may never have had rules. Someone mentioned that she may have been spoiled/treated like a baby and then dumped because of this exact behavior.

A normal, house trained Dog will need to poop about 12 hours after eating. I have seen rehab dogs go for 3 days and then it quite literally all comes out. Usually this is a sign that the above trick is working.

A normal dog will take 20 minutes to 'do it's thing'.

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#10  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:41 am


Thanks TornadoRed. I wouldn't have thought of anything like that. I'll tell him about that training method so he/we can give it a try. I'll be honest though when he is home I don't plan on doing anything with the dog. I'll simply help when I am home, but he is not. I already told him this too.
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#11  Unread postby MaggieJ » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:57 am


TeaTimeBunnies wrote:Thanks TornadoRed. I wouldn't have thought of anything like that. I'll tell him about that training method so he/we can give it a try. I'll be honest though when he is home I don't plan on doing anything with the dog. I'll simply help when I am home, but he is not. I already told him this too.


Good for you, TeaTime! :up:

And just want to add that TornadoRed's plan sounds like a good one to me. :yes:

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#12  Unread postby TornadoRed » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:01 am


Good luck, Tea Time.
And thank you MaggieJ.
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I forgot to add that you should tie the leash around your waist if long enough. Or loop Through your belt. Keeps your hands free

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#13  Unread postby UFCreel » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:34 am


Think baby suppository. Take her out of her crate insert suppository hold her for 5-10 min. Then take her outside on a leash. To the same spot every time. When she goes, tell her what a good girl she is and give her a small treat. Do this over and over again. She will figure it out. It just takes time. Small dogs that have never been trained can be a pain. But the good news is. Even old dogs can learn new tricks.

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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#14  Unread postby TeaTimeBunnies » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:27 am


So as an update, we tried TornadoRed's suggestion and the little thing started acting even worse with other behavior issues so we tried something new and it seems to be working. My mother had a leash splitter that she didn't use since she is down to one dog. We decided to see what would happen if we hooked the little dog to my dog who is already trained, and then to our cable together (the cable is temporary while the fence is being finished). So we hooked them ut, told them "outside" which means to go to the back door for bathroom time, hooked them to the cable, and watched. When my dog started to go the little one watched, and then she started to go too!! We brought them inside after they both went, and tried a few more things such as "sit", and it worked again. We have now decided to train her with keeping her hooked to the trained dog when we are home, and living like we normally would so she can learn her manners by example from my dog
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Re: Already a bad day

Post Number:#15  Unread postby MaggieJ » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:03 pm


What a creative approach! Hope it works! :)

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