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Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck... UPDATE

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Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck... UPDATE

Post Number:#1  Unread postby RebelScumHan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:00 am


What to do with difficult breeders (besides cull)?

I have a 3/4 NZ 1/4 Flemish girl. She's 13.5 pounds, my biggest doe, a wonderful mother, and very mild-mannered. She's a fantastic girl, but she hates breeding. I've only been able to get one litter out of her ever because she never lifts. Her only litter is now 10 weeks old.

What's odd is that last week, she started building a nest. There is hay and fur piled in there, but I never saw a fall-off! I thought maybe she has been trying to tell me she is ready to breed, but whenever I try to breed her, she won't lift for anyone. I really don't want to cull her. I'm planning on sticking her in the colony currently getting built and seeing if she will breed more willingly on her own time as opposed to when we try to breed her, but that will take more time.

UPDATE

No babies. This morning, she was acting all social and sweet, she even let me touch her tummy. Her nipples are not full anymore. No changes to her nest. I really don't think she is pregnant. I tried breeding her with two males this morning... nothing -_- and she's pissed that I tried breeding her again.
Last edited by RebelScumHan on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#2  Unread postby akane » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:13 am


She'll probably breed in colony if everyone can remain peaceful. Such a doe has higher odds of being an issue as hormonal changes that drive nesting behavior even without a litter will often make them more territorial than usual. Some great cage raising mothers are crappy for colony rabbits and some difficult breeders are far better in a colony so it can go either way when you have a strong mothering instinct but resistance to breed.

If you've only bred her in a small area try a floor or yard pen with the buck instead. The more open space with a scenery change and no claimed territory will sometimes mimic some of the reasons they tend to breed more consistently in colony.

Have you tried multiple bucks? I've had some that were great mothers simply be picky about mates and I've occasionally had bucks everyone didn't breed as well with. Since many of mine turned into dog food I often made some weird crossbreeds just to get a first time doe to breed with a buck she preferred before trying for a purebred litter. I could spend months trying to get her to lift or 2 months raising slightly less ideal dog food before they usually went on to breed better provided they were never given too long of break. Very hormonal does also tend to do better bred heavy or they will get unpredictable around the bucks again.
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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Zass » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:14 am


It sounds like she's likely experiencing a false pregnancy, but does have been known to get pregnant without a breeder observing a good fall off, so it's best to keep a nestbox in place just in case.

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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#4  Unread postby UFCreel » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:07 am


Have you tried holding her up for the buck to mount?

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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Rainey » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:49 am


If you tried to breed her and she is building a nest I'd stop trying to breed her until she's well past 31 days from the attempt that didn't include a fall-off. We've had several litters from breedings that didn't have a fall-off and that seemed dubious. But when we tried to put them back with the buck and they refused any contact, they did kindle 31 days after the dubious breeding. But so far, I guess we've been lucky, having rabbits that actually 'breed like rabbits' without the lack of interest,vicious does or such that I see posted.
Hope she kindles for you.

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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#6  Unread postby michaels4gardens » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:33 pm


try checking the color of her vulva before you try breeding- if it has a dark purple color inside, it is much more likely she will cooperate- it it is light colored she probably won't .. might save you both some frustration.
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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#7  Unread postby akane » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:12 pm


I've had so many rabbits that don't "breed like rabbits" it's a bit of a joke in this house. Rats definitely bred easier and the only thing I really used the breeding group I joined for was making cost effective rat feed out of poultry pellets and dog food when you can't buy rodent blocks here I think I'd place them as the easiest mammal I've ever multiplied and that's a lot of species if you count some oopsies among the less common exotics I kept. When you get something so uncommon experienced exotics vets can't tell if you have a male, female, or genetic anomaly that fits one or both categories you have a problem. :lol: Hedgehogs probably rank second only because you do have to house them singly with controlled breeding attempts unlike rats but our attempts always produced a litter so better than rabbits.

We even had some real lazy bucks who would pick and choose does to bother mounting or would get mounted by the frustrated doe wanting to breed before they could get around to doing anything. They couldn't be left in a cage with food or bred too close to feeding time or it was more interesting than the doe. Along with the difficult does I've dealt with the personality issues of a colony are entirely worth the consistent breeding that goes on with rarely any need to do anything. I had one doe that would pick fights about 2 weeks into pregnancy so she had a dedicated cage to rotate into. Also some odd one time events the does got over once they accomplished their own litter and an aggressive buck. I can name most of those problems though. I wouldn't know where to start to list all the caged rabbits I had problems with and the things I attempted.
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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck...

Post Number:#8  Unread postby RebelScumHan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:51 pm


akane wrote:She'll probably breed in colony if everyone can remain peaceful. Such a doe has higher odds of being an issue as hormonal changes that drive nesting behavior even without a litter will often make them more territorial than usual. Some great cage raising mothers are crappy for colony rabbits and some difficult breeders are far better in a colony so it can go either way when you have a strong mothering instinct but resistance to breed.

If you've only bred her in a small area try a floor or yard pen with the buck instead. The more open space with a scenery change and no claimed territory will sometimes mimic some of the reasons they tend to breed more consistently in colony.

Have you tried multiple bucks? I've had some that were great mothers simply be picky about mates and I've occasionally had bucks everyone didn't breed as well with. Since many of mine turned into dog food I often made some weird crossbreeds just to get a first time doe to breed with a buck she preferred before trying for a purebred litter. I could spend months trying to get her to lift or 2 months raising slightly less ideal dog food before they usually went on to breed better provided they were never given too long of break. Very hormonal does also tend to do better bred heavy or they will get unpredictable around the bucks again.


Oh yes, many bucks! Five! And we no longer have the one male she bred with before... he wasn't even half her size!

-- Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:38 pm --

Rainey wrote:If you tried to breed her and she is building a nest I'd stop trying to breed her until she's well past 31 days from the attempt that didn't include a fall-off. We've had several litters from breedings that didn't have a fall-off and that seemed dubious. But when we tried to put them back with the buck and they refused any contact, they did kindle 31 days after the dubious breeding. But so far, I guess we've been lucky, having rabbits that actually 'breed like rabbits' without the lack of interest,vicious does or such that I see posted.
Hope she kindles for you.


That's the problem... it has been about 6-7 weeks of trying to rebreed. I have no idea when she would be due or anything D:

-- Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:39 pm --

UFCreel wrote:Have you tried holding her up for the buck to mount?
I personally have not but my rabbit-breeding neighbor has, lol

-- Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:51 pm --

UPDATE

No babies. This morning, she was acting all social and sweet, she even let me touch her tummy. Her nipples are not full anymore. No changes to her nest. I really don't think she is pregnant. I tried breeding her with two males this morning... nothing -_- and she's pissed that I tried breeding her again.
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Re: Strong, independent doe that don't need no buck... UPDAT

Post Number:#9  Unread postby shazza » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:22 am


i would try forcing it. you can hold her in a similar position to she'd be in if she were lifting - i usually will adjust their feet back and then kinda pull up on the skin on her back so her tail lifts up. provided your buck is eager and doesn't mind your hands in the vicinity, he should mount her and hopefully be able to get it in. i've had to do it a couple times to stubborn does, including one like yours that was a maiden doe and was nearing a year old, so i needed her bred asap. he only was able to get one fall-off, but she got pregnant and cooperated much better when i rebred her after her kits weaned. it feels kinda mean, but sometimes it's for the best :/
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