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Silver Marten - Otter

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
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Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#1  Unread postby ladysown » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:37 pm


Not knowing how genetics work, so this is just my thinking.

Otter and Silver Martens are basically the same just a different marking colour?

So breeding a silver marten to an Otter should result potentially in either martens or otters?

Rosie (black silver marten) to Dooley (broken chocolate otter).

kit one: appears to be seal (or just a very off coloured black)
kit two: appears to be broken black otter
kit three: no clue. Thinking it is either a broken seal (as it looks off) OR a broken black silver marten (those odd lighter areas on the edges of the black). Could this be possible? and how do I tell if it is a broken black silver marten? The light areas against a white background....... it's a bit of a tough call at 9 days of age. Just wondering if any of you "more aware of genetics and colours" people out there could give me some pointers as to what to look for?
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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#2  Unread postby Honorine » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:48 pm


A black Silver Marten is basicly a chinchilla rabbit, and a black Otter is a castor. Breeding the two together would get you otters and whatever other recessives they may carry. The Otter would have to carry chinchilla to produce Silver Martens. Telling Martens from Otters may be tricky on a broken, since the feet and belly will be white. Check behind the ears, around the nostrils for any brown, also the ear edges.

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#3  Unread postby ladysown » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:25 am


so if I understand you correctly honorine, the chances of kit number three being a broken silver marten aren't very high? it's more likely to be a broken seal?

the only reason I think kit #2 is an otter is there are faint traces of brown on the ears. I"m seriously hoping its a doe. :)
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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#4  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:38 pm


Do you have pics? A seal would also have the chinchilla gene.Being a broken you may never know untill it has a litter itself. Sort of like the magpie harlequins and their white feet not showing up!

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Brody » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:33 pm


I will never understand rabbit colours - NEVER
though knowing silver marten is a chinchilla variation makes sense as mum is chinchilla and one kit is black silver marten (maybe black... I dont even know what black is anymore- LOL)
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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:30 pm


[url]http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/genetics.htm[/url ]Hope this helps! If you scroll way down you will see the chart with the chinchilla variations in order of dominance. :D

__________ Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:29 pm __________

http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/genetics.htm

__________ Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:30 pm __________

Ok I don't know why its not linking? it worked in the preview.

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Honorine » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:58 am


Lauren is right, to be a seal it would also have to carry chinchilla, so it could be a silver marten or a seal. Chinchilla is a complex gene, this article is written by one of my best buddies, explains it very clearly and easily.

http://www.chini-mini.com/CHLgene.html

Would love to see pictures!

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#8  Unread postby ladysown » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:25 pm


i'm hoping to get good pic this afternoon, and then will post of my litter and mom/dad too. :)

__________ Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:25 pm __________

Image
seal

Image
black silver marten

Image
black otter

Image
Mom is a black silver marten doe (so I've been told). Though her black isn't sharp like the black on Magic... so sometimes I wonder if she's a something else silver marten, though what I wouldn't have the faintest clue. From her I've gotten gold tipped steel, black, seal, black silver marten, and one chinchilla.

Image
Dad is a broken chocolate otter.
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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Surfing_Bunny » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:56 am


The way it was explained to me not getting into the "C" color gene- chin. and the "AT" color gene- otter to much. Topic and study goes on forever with the genotype and phenotype color rules.

A agouti or otter will have fawn or orange ticking, diamond on the back, and "V" on the nose.

A Chin or Silver Martin will not have orange or fawn color.

That is the difference when looking at the rabbit.
If you have a chin or agouti blow into the fur and you willl see a ring pattern. Once again the way to figure one from the other is if that orange or fawn mingled into the fur.

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#10  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:52 pm


Otter can carry self also; so that could be just a straight up black. I don't think its a seal beacuse it would need two chin modifiers to be seal (self chin)

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#11  Unread postby ladysown » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:54 pm


it wasn't black, it was an odd colour. She had another one like that and a breeder who had more experience than I did came in to see that one and when I said what the heck is this, said, oh that...it's a seal. I took her at her word. It's not quite black. It was like a sepia colour.
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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#12  Unread postby Silver Star Rabbitry » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:22 pm


Your doe looks like she is definitely a silver marten. She is just a little faded.
I don't know much about genetics, but a seal looks like an extremely dark chocolate. They almost look black.

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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#13  Unread postby ladysown » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:33 pm


that would describe that kit really well. in certain light you'd think black, but in good light you'd say... what is that...not quite black, it has this brown overtone to it...so is it a really dark brown rabbit or a weird black rabbit? :)
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Re: Silver Marten - Otter

Post Number:#14  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:00 pm


The only way to tell is if the kit throws a chinchilla itself.

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