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Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help :)

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
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Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help :)

Post Number:#1  Unread postby ipoGSD » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:16 pm


Mom- black otter
Dad- lilac smoke pearl chin

I don't know what moms genes are but her whole litter was black otters. Dad has lots of lilac and lynx

I bred mom back to a son and want to breed daughter to dad. Every kit they throw are chestnuts.

My thoughts are..
Blk otter mom to chestnut son= chestnuts, black and possibly blk otter... correct?

Lilac smoke pearl chin dad to chestnut daughter = chestnuts, and lilacs? Smokes? Pearls? Possibly lynx? Chocolate? Help me on this one lol seems like a lot of possibilities..?
Last edited by ipoGSD on Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help

Post Number:#2  Unread postby SableSteel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:10 pm


chestnut to black otter mother is likely just chestnuts and black otters, both would have to carry self to get black which is less likely.
lilac smoke pearl chin to chestnut= chestnut, opal, lynx, cinnamon, and different shades of shaded chins, maybe even (agouti) himalayan or rew depending on what they carry. Lots of possibilities.
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Re: Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help

Post Number:#3  Unread postby ipoGSD » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:14 pm


So. For the most part, I was right in my color assumptions :) woohooo lol

Mom/son i hope I get more otters than chestnuts. Bout sick of seeing that color lol both of their litters were 100% chesnut.

And YAY!!! with dad/daughter!!! Hoping to get a very typie nice colored buck. My current buck is beautiful but I do NOT like his ears. So I'm hoping for the best but expecting dads ears lol and (whispers) no chestnuts! Lol

These combos sound sooo wrong lol

And yet again, ty Sablesteel, you always help me out with these genetics questions. I truly appreciate the help :) :up:

__________ Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:14 pm __________

Hi SableSteel, mind was running away with more thoughts..

Would chestnut sibling to sibling pop more color or...lots of chestnuts? I'm guessing lots of chestnuts because that would be the dominant color. But sibling/sibling coulda potentially throw, otter and all the other color combos you mentioned above along with show any hidden colors assuming there are any and assuming they would hit the odds.. correct?

Not sure what % of chestnuts on average I'd get but I'm guessing odds would be high for chestnuts.. correct?

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Re: Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help

Post Number:#4  Unread postby SableSteel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:06 pm


For the mother x son breeding you'd probably get around 50% otter, 50% chestnut. For the baby breedings you'd get probably around 30% chestnut, 10% opal, 10% cinnamon/chocolate agouti, 10% black otter, the rest mixed up with some of the other colors from the sire. Additionally from breeding sibling x sibling you have very small chance of getting other tan pattern varieties (25% total), including black otter, blue otter, chocolate otter, lilac otter, sable marten, smoke pearl marten, etc
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Re: Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help

Post Number:#5  Unread postby ipoGSD » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:20 pm


Oh wow I would have thought chestnut would have a higher percentage with siblings than mom/son. Very good to know!!! I might try it someday :)
And again, ty Sable. You sure know your genetics!!!!! :reading1: :clap: :thankyou:

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Re: Breeding back to parents. Calling all gene experts, help

Post Number:#6  Unread postby akane » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:21 am


You get a higher percentage of chestnut originally because chestnut is the result of basically all dominant genes. When you cross the offspring you double up all the recessive genes that chestnut hides. You can only see recessives with a copy from both parents. A chestnut can produce nearly every single color depending what recessives it's carrying but you cannot get the dominant color form a recessive color.

For example if you have a black with dilute and chocolate it could produce black, blue (dilute), chocolate, and lilac (chocolate plus dilute) while chocolate and blue can only potentially produce 2 of those and lilac only more lilac when bred to the same color. If you breed blue and chocolate though you are likely to get blacks carrying dilute and chocolate that will produce all 4 colors and you might only get blacks if neither parent has any recessives. They have opposite recessive and dominant genes with no dilute gene showing on a chocolate and no chocolate showing on a blue to result in the dominant color of black. In this case black x lilac means all rabbits have both chocolate and dilute to produce all 4 colors. Plus whatever other recessives might not be seen yet and whatever we are calling smoke pearl chin (sable or chin gene?) given that smoke pearl is a blue sable (chl) color of marten and the chinchilla (chd) version of otter is a silver marten. A tan lilac with chinchilla gene would normally be a lilac silver marten but who the heck decided we needed a special name for blue sable colors by calling them smoke pearls instead of following the rest of the usual naming scheme I dunno. http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ge ... pes-chart/
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