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Making a Broken Pattern

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
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Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#1  Unread postby lpmorgens » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:55 pm


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I have a broken black Netherland Dwarf buck, and I'd like to breed him to have more brokens. I don't have a broken doe, and I can't seem to find any quality broken ND does anywhere near me. What other color or variety should I consider to get more brokens? Thanks.

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#2  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:11 pm


You'll get 50% broken from him with any non-broken female. So it rly doesnt matter. Pick what you want, though I'd recomend a harlequin. Tricolors are very popular (tricolor = broken harlequin)

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#3  Unread postby lpmorgens » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:26 pm


Love your website!!!

__________ Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:26 pm __________

I only have two solid does.. one is a lightly marked sable with lots of otters in the pedigree, and the other is a Chestnut (Vienna carrier) with blue and black in the pedigree... I want blue or black brokens, but have been cautioned to stay away from Vienna for broken patterns. The Chestnut has more blue and black, but is a Vienna carrier.

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#4  Unread postby ozemba » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:36 am


The Chestnut would give you some nice broken as well as nonbrokens, the only thing that they mean to watch for breeding vienna carrier to broken is that if the offspring does pop up as a vienna marked that can create some unwanted things with their patterning and eye color.

I think. I am in no way an expert. My experience lies in the fact that I bred one of my vienna marked does to my tricolored buck.

As far as I know it just makes it harder down the line to get specific colors that you may want.

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#5  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:35 pm


lpmorgens wrote:Love your website!!!

Thank you very much ^^

Either females work, it doesnt rly matter.
I've had a broken smutty tort before and it looks almost like a tricolor. I imagine a sable would be similar I'd be interrested to see the result.
Your chestnut, if she carries self you'll get some blacks, but if not you never will. So unless either the mom or dad is a self you can't be sure she carries it and the only way to know will be to breed her.
The most common vienna marks are dutch rabbit like or just a dot on the nose or paw, so a broken + vienna would still look nicelly broken. I wouldnt worry about it too much unless you want to do show quality. If it's for pets you'll be fine, people will love a blue eyes broken. Only real issue is unless the kit has blue eyes you wont be able to tell people if the kit carries vienna for sure or not since the markings will be invisible in the broken pattern..

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#6  Unread postby lpmorgens » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:46 pm


The brokens won't be for show quality... just and interest in Charlies with very little color. My other lines are for show (BEW, Orange). The chestnut does carry black and blue, but I don't know about self. I've only bred her to a BEW... got a Black VM from that.

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#7  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:43 pm


In that case she carries self. Chestnut is the agouti of black and agouti is dominant. So you could never get a self (black) baby out of her if she didnt carry self. So you're good she's Aa ^.-
From the way you worded things I though you never bred her and only knew she should carry black and blue from her pedigree, but if she didn't carry self those would always come out as chestnut or opal.

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#8  Unread postby lpmorgens » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:07 pm


ozemba wrote:The Chestnut would give you some nice broken as well as nonbrokens, the only thing that they mean to watch for breeding vienna carrier to broken is that if the offspring does pop up as a vienna marked that can create some unwanted things with their patterning and eye color.

I think. I am in no way an expert. My experience lies in the fact that I bred one of my vienna marked does to my tricolored buck.

As far as I know it just makes it harder down the line to get specific colors that you may want.



Do you know that the vienna would do to a broken black (charlie) pattern? I'm not trying to make a show quality rabbit, just a very clean Charlie (black mustache, ears, eye rings) for my son's magic act.

__________ Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:07 pm __________

KimitsuKouseki wrote:In that case she carries self. Chestnut is the agouti of black and agouti is dominant. So you could never get a self (black) baby out of her if she didnt carry self. So you're good she's Aa ^.-
From the way you worded things I though you never bred her and only knew she should carry black and blue from her pedigree, but if she didn't carry self those would always come out as chestnut or opal.


Thanks. Unfortunately, I already bred her to my BEW, but the next breeding will be with my broken black.

__________ Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:07 pm __________

KimitsuKouseki wrote:In that case she carries self. Chestnut is the agouti of black and agouti is dominant. So you could never get a self (black) baby out of her if she didnt carry self. So you're good she's Aa ^.-
From the way you worded things I though you never bred her and only knew she should carry black and blue from her pedigree, but if she didn't carry self those would always come out as chestnut or opal.


Thanks. Unfortunately, I already bred her to my BEW, but the next breeding will be with my broken black.

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Re: Making a Broken Pattern

Post Number:#9  Unread postby ozemba » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:51 pm


One of the characteristics of VM rabbits is a white snip on the nose and a blaze on the forehead along with the Dutch style white saddle on the shoulders. If you are trying to get a Charlie with full mustache the Vienna gene could cause the mustache to be partial.

I've gotten four brokens from said breeding, only two have full mustaches.

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