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What is going on here?

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
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What is going on here?

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Maleficent » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:18 am


So recently I have noticed with my magpie that the little dark mark he has on his nose has gotten bigger and darker. This all seemed to start once the weather got colder as well. I kept his sister back who has a mostly white face as well and she doesn't seem to have the same color oddity happening to here.

This was him 1 maybe 2 weeks ago when the weather was still on the warm side.

Image

This is him now that it is cooler out, more like late fall early winter temps.

Image

Looking at the pictures again I notice some darker spots on his ear bases too. I'm so confused about what is happening here lol.

__________ Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:18 am __________

:shock: It almost looks like the marking on a himi or a Californian?

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#2  Unread postby Dood » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:06 am


This little guy looks like a self and sable based magpie = aa B_ cchl_ D_ ej_

Similar to the himilayan colour, the sable colour is temperate sensitive and the colder it is the darker the coat grows in and the larger the area it covers

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Maleficent » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:52 pm


Huh, interesting, what would happen if say I were to breed him back to his mom? She obviously has the ability to produce more like him and her dad carried chin. Since he carries sable as well what type of restrictions would there be with future breedings? If I am remembering correctly he won't be able to be be used in and BEW or REW breeding programs right? You don't want pointed in BEWS for sure and it looks like he may carry pointed genetics?

__________ Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:52 pm __________

So, out of curiosity what could I expect out of him if I were to cross him back to his mom? She is a high white tri that produced black, the Sable magpie, and what looked like a couple of broken torts or reds with some smutting in their color.

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#4  Unread postby Dood » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:20 am


I'm not familiar with accepted colours in the Lionhead breed so cannot comment on restrictions

Since there are no agouti based kits, I assume his Tri mother is also self and - aa B_ C_ D_ eje

When bred to this son, statistically you should get
25% Charlie, 50% broken and 25% solid
50% full colour and 50% to 25% sable depending on recessives
100% to 50% harlequin depending on recessives

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#5  Unread postby twr » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:29 pm


IMO the dark nose mark has to be due to torting, which is also temperature sensitive. i.e. this rabbit is aaeje. While cchl is indeed temperature sensitive it shouldn't be able to turn magpie-white areas dark or create a symmetric marking where there wasn't one before. Torting on the other hand will do both.

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#6  Unread postby alforddm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:33 am


Are you sure torting is temperature sensitive? I've never heard of mutations in MCR1 or ASIP being temperature sensitive.

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#7  Unread postby twr » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:59 pm


alforddm wrote:Are you sure torting is temperature sensitive? I've never heard of mutations in MCR1 or ASIP being temperature sensitive.

The forum post that convinced me is here (beware the auto translation and the use of "european" symbology, which uses B for MC1R).

I've never found access to the underlying papers though.

Note that there is nothing particularly special about C (aka TYR) that makes its mutations temperature sensitive. Temperature sensitivity is a relatively common side effect of mutation.

Also, I forgot to mention that a rabbit's points cool as it grows, so age can play a role in the effect of a temperature-sensitive gene.

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#8  Unread postby alforddm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:03 pm


That is fascinating that you for the link.

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Re: What is going on here?

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Maleficent » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:25 pm


I just noticed his feet have gotten darker as well, I loved his colors before they darkened. Oh well come spring/summer he should be back to the coloring I love I hope XD

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