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Otter vs Marten - Different?

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
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Otter vs Marten - Different?

Post Number:#1  Unread postby KentuckyHare » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:00 am


Ok- I purchased 2 Black Silver Marten Does - Netherland Dwarf. I could only find a very young Black Buck - He's growing up now. I'd like to breed now - So I did my research (I thought) and bought a bred Chestnut Doe and Buck. So I will have babies from the Doe - But can I breed the Chestnut buck to the Martens? Some sites say yes - Some say No. Otter = Marten or Marten not equal? ( Head :axe: hurting - LOL) Any help or Just let them breed and take notes and cull for the future? Thanks for the help.

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Re: Otter vs Marten - Different?

Post Number:#2  Unread postby moonkitten » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:29 am


So you've got Marten does and a Chestnut buck? Where does the Otter come into the question?

A silver marten is genetically an otter who also has the chinchilla gene in the 'C' locus. The chin gene removes the yellow/orange which would appear as a triangle at the base of the neck and along the belly sides in an otter. Thus otter (no chin gene) becomes marten (with chin gene).

If your buck is a chestnut, he's got both 'A' - agouti and 'C' full colour which he will pass on to at least some of his offspring (if the second gene in the 'A' is 'At' or 'a', then you will get some otter/marten kits and if the second gene in the 'C' locus is 'cch' or 'ch' or 'c' then you could get some marten kits. You will also likely get some chestnut agouti since the 'A' and 'C' he's carrying are dominant.

It all depends on what you intend to do with the offspring. If you are hoping to develop lines of silver marten ND, and sell them, then no, you don't want to muck up the genetics with whatever your chestnut is carrying. If you're breeding for yourself/pets, and you like lots of variety, then go for it. Depending on what is in the second 'A' and 'C' on your chestnut, you could get a whole slew of colours.

Just be aware that you will get a number of non-marten kits and you will need to consider what to do with them.
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Re: Otter vs Marten - Different?

Post Number:#3  Unread postby KentuckyHare » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:12 am


Hello - Thanks MoonKitten for the help. The Otter vs Marten comes one from my still learning. I googled and altavistaed (sp?) a answer - Depending on the websites and their color charts - Otter to Chestnut : OK - Marten to Chestnut : OK. Next website - No. Next website - Otter is what to Marten? Etc. Etc. - Gets confusing between which website to believe. :evil:

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Re: Otter vs Marten - Different?

Post Number:#4  Unread postby moonkitten » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:48 am


KentuckyHare wrote:Gets confusing between which website to believe. :evil:


That may have a lot to do with what each website creator's goal is. If you're breeding to show and sell show quality animals, then crossing an agouti/full colour based rabbit with a tan (At) chinchilla (cch) would be a bad thing. You're dealing with dominants and recessives and will give yourself or your customers headaches down the generations.

If you're looking for pretty colours and attractive pets, then there's no reason not to cross as you will get a LOT of variety in the genetics of the offspring.

As a show breeder you can still cross dominants and recessives as long as you are willing to cull hard, test breed your offspring to see what they are carrying and use full disclosure with customers so they know what may be hidden in the rabbits they are buying. That's a lot of work, and many people aren't willing or don't understand what they've created in these crosses, so the simple answer for many of these websites is "don't do it". As a meat breeder, it's a lot easier for me -- we eat everything that doesn't turn out to have the genetics I'm trying to get. With ND, it may be a different story and I'm sure a lot of these websites are trying to prevent mass dumping of poor coloured animals at shelters.
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