Register

What's likely to happen?

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 284
Joined: October 13, 2010
Location: El Paso, TX
Thanks: 15
Thanked: 11 in 9 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,331.00

What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#1  Unread postby xlt » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:34 am


OK, I know nothing... I mean NOTHING about genetics/colors etc.

Currently I have, due to limited availability in this area, what I believe are three half siblings as my breeding stock. They are all NZW/CA crosses.

I have an opportunity this next week while I am in San Antonio to purchase a NZ red doe and and a NZ black doe of good quality.

What do I expect in colors from breeding these to my cross buck? He has "muddy" points they are pretty faint and not solid either. But he has done a good job so far. Do I expect some kits of with white, some with white with points, some red and some black in all litters?

Sorry if this is a silly question :).

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2033
Joined: August 1, 2010
Location: upstate New York
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 309 in 256 posts
BunnyBucks: 8,390.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#2  Unread postby ottersatin » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:10 pm


xlt wrote:OK, I know nothing... I mean NOTHING about genetics/colors etc.

Currently I have, due to limited availability in this area, what I believe are three half siblings as my breeding stock. They are all NZW/CA crosses.

I have an opportunity this next week while I am in San Antonio to purchase a NZ red doe and and a NZ black doe of good quality.

What do I expect in colors from breeding these to my cross buck? He has "muddy" points they are pretty faint and not solid either. But he has done a good job so far. Do I expect some kits of with white, some with white with points, some red and some black in all litters?

Sorry if this is a silly question :).


Not Silly!
and the answer is!
Any or ALL of the above!
Ottersatin. :oldtimer:
Please visit my website: http://crescentvalley.webs.com/
Sign Guest book so I know you stopped by.
Thank you Dennis.

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 7447
Joined: December 26, 2009
Location: near London, Ontario
Canada Female
Thanks: 43
Thanked: 769 in 660 posts
BunnyBucks: 33,876.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#3  Unread postby ladysown » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:30 am


you could likely get chestnut as well. :)
ladysown

http://athomepets.weebly.com/
Primary Blog : http://athomepets.weebly.com/at-home-pets-blog.html
Old Blog: blogs/athomepets/

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 284
Joined: October 13, 2010
Location: El Paso, TX
Thanks: 15
Thanked: 11 in 9 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,331.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#4  Unread postby xlt » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:38 am


OK, next question... Same seller offered me a NZ Black buck... what is going to happen in the round breeding of a NZ Black with the Red? All black in the first generation? All red? Or mixed, some red, some black... or mixed with different colors in there? Is that even all the possibilities?

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 7447
Joined: December 26, 2009
Location: near London, Ontario
Canada Female
Thanks: 43
Thanked: 769 in 660 posts
BunnyBucks: 33,876.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#5  Unread postby ladysown » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:41 am


not sure, I expect though you'd get black and chestnut.
ladysown

http://athomepets.weebly.com/
Primary Blog : http://athomepets.weebly.com/at-home-pets-blog.html
Old Blog: blogs/athomepets/

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 1895
Joined: January 6, 2010
Location: North Simcoe Ontario
Thanks: 51
Thanked: 136 in 118 posts
BunnyBucks: 6,955.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:57 pm


All chestnut from the red and black carrying for self. UNLESS the black and Red carries dilute as well. If you get blacks then the red carries self. Red is non extension AGOUTI which is always dominant to self. You would need two self genes to produce black but only one gene to produce agouti. Breeding the next generation back you would start getting reds back because they would also carry the non extension. :) :)

Whatever you do do not put Californian markings into your Red!! That is part of the chinchilla family of mods and their job is to supress all red/tan colour! So you would get what is called a frosty.. which is a normal eyed white rabbit with some "frosting" on the extremities.Not sure if you are going to show or not or if you care about that but just thought I'd let you know beforehand. :)

The following user would like to thank Devon's Mom Lauren for this post
xlt

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 284
Joined: October 13, 2010
Location: El Paso, TX
Thanks: 15
Thanked: 11 in 9 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,331.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#7  Unread postby xlt » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:02 pm


Not planning on showing, but ideally, would like to maintain the red color. If not immediately, then in the second generation... just wondering what the mix would/might do, and if I would ever get red back out of them, or if they would all be chestnut forever :)

Not sure I want to know this, but how do I know if they are "self" or "dilute"... breed them and find out? Now that I read closely, I think you answered that already...

I have limited space and will likely slowly get my CA/NZ crosses to the sidelines here... they were all that was available at the time. The NZB is available and is of good quality and his daughter, plus one red doe that is also good.

CA/NZ cross buck with black would be alright then?
Last edited by xlt on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 1895
Joined: January 6, 2010
Location: North Simcoe Ontario
Thanks: 51
Thanked: 136 in 118 posts
BunnyBucks: 6,955.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#8  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:31 pm


You could defiantly put the black into the whites and cals. You would just get all black babies.......UNLESS (lol) that black carries rew or cali!!! Its a distinct possibility that it carries REW but not as likely Cali.

You can tell a self by their solid colour including the belly, while an agouti type like red would have the cream belly and eye circles etc.

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 549
Joined: April 29, 2010
Location: Alaska
Thanks: 18
Thanked: 12 in 12 posts
BunnyBucks: 2,325.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#9  Unread postby PulpFaction » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:48 pm


XLT, if one of your goals is to keep Red in your herd, you should take the Black NZ buck (or breed the doe to him before you get her,) and keep a chestnut buck out of the resulting litter. Breed him back to his dam and you should get Red.
Rachel
Thriantas and Silver Fox in Anchorage, AK
http://www.haikuheritage.weebly.com <-- NEW WEBSITE!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Haiku-Heritage/180319155321429 <-- JOIN ME ON FACEBOOK!

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 284
Joined: October 13, 2010
Location: El Paso, TX
Thanks: 15
Thanked: 11 in 9 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,331.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#10  Unread postby xlt » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:20 pm


That's what I thought... thanks for verifying Pulp...

I do want to keep the red for sure.

XLT

__________ Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:20 pm __________

Does anyone have an example of a chestnut color that I could look at? I don't really know what that color looks like, other than kind of brown... is it what is called agouti also?

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 1895
Joined: January 6, 2010
Location: North Simcoe Ontario
Thanks: 51
Thanked: 136 in 118 posts
BunnyBucks: 6,955.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#11  Unread postby Devon's Mom Lauren » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:32 pm


Yes it is :) When you blow into the fur oof the chestnut agouti you will see 3 distinct rings of colour! I think there are a number of photos here that show chestnut but can't remember offhand what threads...

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 153
Joined: September 8, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 4 in 4 posts
BunnyBucks: 0.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#12  Unread postby billylilwigeon » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:31 pm


I'd dare to say it will strengthen the black NZ gene and get plenty of black kits due to the fact that a Californian is basically a black rabbit genetically speaking.

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 284
Joined: October 13, 2010
Location: El Paso, TX
Thanks: 15
Thanked: 11 in 9 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,331.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#13  Unread postby xlt » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:24 pm


I know that the NZ agouti is not a showable/recognized color, but if I wanted to develop it as a consistent color in a line, how would you do this?

It would seem that my color combo would never breed true using what I have?

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
Posts: 252
Joined: December 26, 2009
Location: Ontario
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 21 in 20 posts
BunnyBucks: 455.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#14  Unread postby moonkitten » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:43 pm


xlt wrote:I know that the NZ agouti is not a showable/recognized color, but if I wanted to develop it as a consistent color in a line, how would you do this?

It would seem that my color combo would never breed true using what I have?


If you create chestnuts (agouti) from a black/red cross, the chestnut will be displaying the dominant alleles, but carrying recessives. Black is aa - self recessive. Red is eeww - non-extension and wideband recessive (prevents the black from displaying). So your first generation chestnuts would be AaEeWw. Crossing these would produce more chestnut, red and blacks (possibly, depending on the role of the dice :))

To breed a line of pure chestnut agouti, you would need to eliminate the a, e and w recessives from your chestnut breeding stock. That means raising the offspring to breeding age, test breeding and then culling out any 2nd or 3rd generation chestnuts that continue to throw reds and blacks. What you want to end up with is AAEEWW by crossing chestnut to chestnut and then test breeding.

And yes, there are more colour alleles involved, but these three are the main ones required to determine chestnut vs red vs black. I won't even go INTO the modifiers :D

Or you can just breed chestnut to chestnut and eat the occasional black or red offspring...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Down the Rabbit Hole -Harlequins and New Zealand (black, blue, and broken)

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 284
Joined: October 13, 2010
Location: El Paso, TX
Thanks: 15
Thanked: 11 in 9 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,331.00

Re: What's likely to happen?

Post Number:#15  Unread postby xlt » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:17 pm


Thanks!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests