Trinity Oaks' grain-feed mix : Natural Feeding for Rabbits - Page 3

Piper wrote:They may like it better, but unless they refuse to drink the vinegar ("Braggs" with the mother or homemade kombucha vinegar),I will stay with the vinegar - has more benefits than just tea. Thank You, though - but why would you add tea? I use the vinegar for the probiotics and to deter bad bacteria.

I really dont believe in the vinegar i have done it and it dosnt claim for what it does. Also if you do more research on it . The mother in it is just for you can make your own. It is a live culture so you can continue making it yourself .It has no affect on the rabbits in anyway. People are using this stuff thinking this. IT changes the PH level . To much of this stuff will harm the rabbit . THe tea is good for the stomach you make as if you are making a pot of tea except you use cold water and dont boil it. I have to find the link for it.

Thank You, made some changes

ReiLossefalme wrote:I was looking up BOSS nutrition and I was surprised to see it listed at between only 15 and 16% because it has less protein and more fat than striped sunflower seeds.

Kaytee labels their BOSS as 15.5%
http://www.kaytee.com/products/black-oil-sunflower.php

Protein
76 % Dried earthworms
58 % Mealworm
42 % Dried black soldier fly
28 % Earthworms (fresh)
22.78% Sunflower Striped can be as high as 26.3%
15.5% boss - Black Oil Sunflower
14 % Oats
12.5% wheat
12.3% barley
7 % Beet Pulp - can be as high as 10%

Protein ref http://www.avianaquamiser.com/posts/Pro ... gredients/
Sunflower Striped http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower_seed

__________ Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:29 pm __________

Mary Ann's Rabbitry wrote:

Piper wrote:They may like it better, but unless they refuse to drink the vinegar ("Braggs" with the mother or homemade kombucha vinegar),I will stay with the vinegar - has more benefits than just tea. Thank You, though - but why would you add tea? I use the vinegar for the probiotics and to deter bad bacteria.

I really dont believe in the vinegar i have done it and it dosnt claim for what it does. Also if you do more research on it . The mother in it is just for you can make your own. It is a live culture so you can continue making it yourself .It has no affect on the rabbits in anyway. People are using this stuff thinking this. IT changes the PH level . To much of this stuff will harm the rabbit . THe tea is good for the stomach you make as if you are making a pot of tea except you use cold water and dont boil it. I have to find the link for it.

The Kombacha that I refer to is homemade.
half a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar or Kombacha to about a half a gallon of water.
Helps with probiotics.
- Googled using "rabbits tannins tea" and found a lot. I will have to wait to see what you have, since each link seems to list a different plant that they are making the tea from.

How do your rabbits perform with the grain diet?

Mine are doing really well on pellets and hay but I am considering switching a few and seeing how they compare.

Is there any particular reason to do 1 part wheat to 1 part barley in these grain mixes? I find wheat to be several dollars more per 50 lb bag here than barley which drives cost projections up quite a bit. Is the wheat superior in some way to barley or would less of it be perfectly acceptable as well?

ReiLossefalme wrote:Is there any particular reason to do 1 part wheat to 1 part barley in these grain mixes? I find wheat to be several dollars more per 50 lb bag here than barley which drives cost projections up quite a bit. Is the wheat superior in some way to barley or would less of it be perfectly acceptable as well?

from post66698.html#p66698
Trinityoaks has a LOT of experience with this. This is her reference

trinityoaks wrote:I use a grain mixture based on the one specified by the late Oren Reynolds ("Mr. ARBA"), as outlined in the Storey book, "Raising Rabbits".

That being said - I have the opposite problem. Barley: feed stores do not carry it, here.
It looks like (even with hay) I am going to have to learn how to sprout grain. I still need to research the nutritional values for the grain - I can get.
That may also bring the overall costs down, for me.
I was told (by a feed store) that they only have gmo grain...

Piper wrote:That being said - I have the opposite problem. Barley: feed stores do not carry it, here.
It looks like (even with hay) I am going to have to learn how to sprout grain. I still need to research the nutritional values for the grain - I can get.
That may also bring the overall costs down, for me.
I was told (by a feed store) that they only have gmo grain...

Same problem here. No one carries barley, wheat or anything but whole oats, which cost more than a bag of pellets. Definitely not economical. Feeding a grain mix, if I could find it, would not cost less at all.

Grain is about the same price per bag as pellets here, but because I feed alfalfa hay at $3.50 a square bale, the grain goes a lot farther and my overall feed costs are less. Grain is a relatively small part of the rabbits' total diet.

We were lucky to find a bulk source of grain... it was a while ago, I've forgotten where we got it. When I think of it, I'll post.

What about "soft wheat bran"... I know it's no where near whole wheat, but would it work? So far all I've found is that and the beet pulp with molasses. Oh yeah, and that the feed store I was expecting to have what I wanted is now nothing but an empty building and a 'for sale' sign.

I'm going to check the other local feed store, but I don't like buying from them as the only bag of pelleted feed I got there was several years old (and I thought I read that the nutrients degrade over a much shorter time than that) and that's what I'm blaming for the ridiculously small doe I'm now working with (NZW x FG and weighed in at 3lbs at the vet today, but in her defense she has been a bit off with her back leg being out of socket for almost a month now).

I was able to get alfalfa hay at the local feed store in town. It is compressed alfalfa. The gentleman that assisted me said it is equal to a regular bale of hay. Is compressed alfalfa hay the same as cubes?

What is it the rabbits need from te grain that they can't get from hay and alfalfa? What nutritions are they missing out? Is it only protein? Or Energy? Or some vitamins or anything else?

I want to know what they need it for and why - first then can I decide on what they actually need. If barley can replace wheat etc.. or if there's something different that may be easier to find in my area.

Does any of you get analyzed hay, so you know the values?

__________ Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:15 am __________

My thinking is ths; rabbits doesn't eat grain by nature.
I realize that it would be near impossible to both learn the right amount and types of all food they eat in the wild, sand to go out and get it.. all herbs, plants, leaves, bark, grass, roots etc. So yeah, I buy that hay might not be enough on its own.
I also see that some breeds are bred to grow fast which changes the needs of amount of nutritients.. what hapens if those breeds get the same diet as a wild rabbit? Will they get sick or just grow more slowly?

But I'd like to learn exactly what it is in grains that rabbits need and won't get from the forage we easily can offer? I bet starch - which grain has a lot of - isn't ideal for a bunny-belly.. like it isn't for horses. They function on it and perhaps it's a necessary evil, but I can't think of anything in their natural diet being so rich on starch.. am I wrong? Some roots are rich in starch, but not that many of the kind we have here, at least. Sugars are generally bad for abbits, and then sugars are way more common in their diet than starches (grass has sugar, greens as sugar, fallen fruits has sugar, berries has sugar etc)

So what nutrient is it we're compensating for with grain?

I'm nt quite sure where thy get salt and minerals from in nature.. nettles has a lot of minerals. But I can see how giving that would be good and even necessary

I'm not trying to question you, I just want to know and learn the whys.. not only the whats..

It's not that there is a nutritional compensation with the grain. It's more like grain is more economical for some, more readily available for some than pellets are, and more of a choice of conscience, because there are quite a few feeds that contain animal byproducts, and all pellets contain dyes and man made chemicals. People who have made the choice to raise there own source of chemical free healthy meat want to feed their buns chemical free healthy food.

Some breeds will grow slower on the grain diet, more because it does offer less protein, and that is only sometimes. Eventually the rabbits will adjust, not die but grow slower. I had a doe grow much faster than the others just being fed scraps and mulberry leaves. believe I will feed a lot of mulberry leaves this summer!

As far as hay, I have no idea who to ask or how to get the hay analyzed. Like so many things in the country I purchase, I just pick it up, take it home and hope it works.

If there's no nutritional compensation from grain and people only buy it because it's cheap; why feed grain at all? Why mix diferent types of grain? Why not only gve hay and alfalfa?

I'm not talking pellet vs grain, I'm talking of why giving anything except hay and alfafa? What is it they need that hay and alfalfa won't give them, but grain/pellets will?
Pellets are hardly natural either

hay and greens should be there main food source... then add pellets or grains as a supplement..But Maggies is right.. what they put in pellets. some have tallow in it ..

Supplementing what? Thats my ques tion. Why is hay not enough?