Register

Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Diagnosing and treating rabbit ailments. *Caution! These threads may contain graphic content.*
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6623
Joined: February 9, 2011
Location: Texas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 470
Thanked: 613 in 500 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,400.00

Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#1  Unread postby OneAcreFarm » Wed May 18, 2011 9:19 am


Found this while surfing online...what do you all think?

**********************************************************

Derivation of Pasteurella multocida-free rabbit litters by enrofloxacin treatment.
Suckow MA, Martin BJ, Bowersock TL, Douglas FA.
Source

Laboratory Animal Program, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907 USA.
Abstract

Pasteurella multocida is an important bacterial pathogen of rabbits that is easily transmitted from infected does to their kits prior to weaning. Enrofloxacin, a flouroquinolone antibiotic, is effective at limiting nasal carriage of P. multocida in rabbits. To determine if enrofloxacin treatment of pregnant does infected with P. multocida can be used to produce P. multocida-free litters, groups of 3 rabbits were inoculated intranasally on day 10 of gestation with 1.0 x 10(6) P. multocida CFUs. Beginning on day 14, one group received enrofloxacin IM (5 mg kg-1, BID), and a second group received enrofloxacin in the drinking water (200 mgl-1). IM treatment continued until kindling, while PO treatment continued 1 week after kindling. A third group was infected but received only IM saline, and a fourth group was infected but not treated. In addition, a fifth group was neither infected nor treated. Culture of nasal lavage samples and tissues from does and kits showed that both routes of enrofloxacin treatment failed to completely eliminate P. multocida from does, but all kits from enrofloxacin-treated does were free from P. multocida. These results suggest that treatment does with enrofloxacin during the periparturient period may interrupt transmission of P. multocida from infected does to their kits and that this treatment may be useful for deriving Pasteurella-free rabbits from infected does.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8828132
Image

http://www.oneacrefarmrabbits.com
~A micro-attempt at self-sufficiency~

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 454
Joined: March 28, 2011
Location: Washington
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 6 in 6 posts
BunnyBucks: 2,831.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#2  Unread postby KatzNetherlands » Wed May 18, 2011 11:30 am


What is enrofloxacin? Is it prescription only or a local drug? Also, is it something you can 'bulk buy' or just buy per case?

__________ Wed May 18, 2011 9:30 am __________

Alright.... well, I have already learned that Enrofoxacin is Baytril..... So, question one answered... which in turned answered the rest.... I am going to talk to my local vet about getting some for 'on hand' any way though. I don't need it now as Pippen has stopped sneezing(YAY!!) and is doing fine now, but I am paranoid about this now. And knowing it could potentially save kits is very important.
http://littlebigzbunnies.weebly.com/
Little Bigz Bunnies
Netherland Dwarfs
The Little Bunnies with the Big Attitudes!

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6623
Joined: February 9, 2011
Location: Texas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 470
Thanked: 613 in 500 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,400.00

AAARRGG!!!!

Post Number:#3  Unread postby OneAcreFarm » Wed May 18, 2011 11:36 am


Ok, so I call my vet, that I take all 5 of my cats to on a regular basis, and they "don't see rabbits." :o Not only that, but they won't give me a prescription for the Baytril either. :( They suggested another vet at their other office but she is OUT OF TOWN until next week! :evil: Why is it that I can get Tylan or Penicillin from TSC but Baytril is prescription only!!!!! :explode:
Image

http://www.oneacrefarmrabbits.com
~A micro-attempt at self-sufficiency~

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
Posts: 3922
Joined: January 7, 2010
Location: Ohio
Female
Thanks: 24
Thanked: 221 in 189 posts
BunnyBucks: 21,399.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#4  Unread postby Frosted Rabbits » Wed May 18, 2011 12:56 pm


Baytril has not been available 'long enough' to be considered 'safe' to use as an OTC agricultural antibiotic. It really stinks--The rabbit specialists I have dealt with (four, by this time) don't seem to regard rabbits as livestock-- they won't let you have enough to treat more than the animals you brought in-- they have no concept of "herd' just 'multiple pets' Kinda gets my goat!!!

BUT-- Tetracycline is effective against pasteurella sp as well. So rather than go with Baytril, you can use terramycin- powder or injectable. THAT is readily available at farm supply stores. Just follow poultry dosages. Barbi Browns Bunnies, the Merck Manual of vet care-- both have the 'clean litter' protocol available, as the OP article suggested. Just reading that abstract-- the researcher followed that protocol. When one uses that protocol, the kits should be totally away from the mother at 4 weeks, so that the mother does not infect them at a later date. In other words-- keep the carriers away from your new, 'clean' rabbits.
Terry
Help keep two Medical Service Dogs in top health: gofundme.com/1yvfgk

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6623
Joined: February 9, 2011
Location: Texas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 470
Thanked: 613 in 500 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,400.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#5  Unread postby OneAcreFarm » Wed May 18, 2011 1:53 pm


Frosted Rabbits wrote:Baytril has not been available 'long enough' to be considered 'safe' to use as an OTC agricultural antibiotic. It really stinks--The rabbit specialists I have dealt with (four, by this time) don't seem to regard rabbits as livestock-- they won't let you have enough to treat more than the animals you brought in-- they have no concept of "herd' just 'multiple pets' Kinda gets my goat!!!

BUT-- Tetracycline is effective against pasteurella sp as well. So rather than go with Baytril, you can use terramycin- powder or injectable. THAT is readily available at farm supply stores. Just follow poultry dosages. Barbi Browns Bunnies, the Merck Manual of vet care-- both have the 'clean litter' protocol available, as the OP article suggested. Just reading that abstract-- the researcher followed that protocol. When one uses that protocol, the kits should be totally away from the mother at 4 weeks, so that the mother does not infect them at a later date. In other words-- keep the carriers away from your new, 'clean' rabbits.


Looked on Barbi's site but did not see the "clean Litter" protocol, am I missing it?
Image

http://www.oneacrefarmrabbits.com
~A micro-attempt at self-sufficiency~

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2730
Joined: March 9, 2011
Location: WI
Thanks: 67
Thanked: 116 in 115 posts
BunnyBucks: 14,860.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#6  Unread postby fuzzy9 » Wed May 18, 2011 3:22 pm


I'm so thankful to have a vet who used to raise meat rabbits, and understands rabbits, as well as what we are doing! When I spoke with him recently, he highly suggested against us using Baytril. He said there are just so many things they are unsure of yet, and the residual can hang around even into future offspring from that doe. He mentioned the same thing to us as Frosted mentioned, the Tetracycline. He said if Tetracycline doesn't work, then Baytril should be considered, but you really have to consider what purpose you are using your rabbits for first and foremost.
Geri

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6623
Joined: February 9, 2011
Location: Texas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 470
Thanked: 613 in 500 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,400.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#7  Unread postby OneAcreFarm » Wed May 18, 2011 4:54 pm


I actually heard from several people who have used Tylan200 for this reason, and have raised P.multocida free litters from infected does this way. I just really don't want to cull these does while they are pregnant... :(
Image

http://www.oneacrefarmrabbits.com
~A micro-attempt at self-sufficiency~

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
Posts: 3922
Joined: January 7, 2010
Location: Ohio
Female
Thanks: 24
Thanked: 221 in 189 posts
BunnyBucks: 21,399.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#8  Unread postby Frosted Rabbits » Wed May 18, 2011 8:37 pm


Oh-- another thing-- Baytril causes huge amounts of pain in the rabbit if injected--It is used in rabbits because if given orally, it is not as devastating to the gut flora as penicillin.

Hmm, I'll look around and see if I can't find a readily accessible protocol-- I may have written the steps down in a notebook, somewhere, too...

__________ Wed May 18, 2011 8:37 pm __________

Now, this article was connected to the OP-- shows WHY the kits must be separated from the parent early, in order to maintain their 'clean' status.

use the powder tetracycline in the drinking water, treatment level (One Tablespoon per 5 gallons)[warning, new batch every 24 hours]from now untill one week post partum, then, go to maintenance level for the kits in their drinking water -0ne teaspoon per gallon- until you remove them from mom. Then, you can cull those does.
Notice-- this article below states that Baytril will not effectively rid an animal of the disease!!! Just helps prevent the kits from developing it before weaning...


Lab Anim. 1995 Apr;29(2):192-9.
Inefficacy of enrofloxacin in the elimination of Pasteurella multocida in rabbits.
Mähler M, Stünkel S, Ziegowski C, Kunstýr I.
Source
Central Laboratory Animal Facility, Medical School, Hannover, Germany.
Abstract
The administration of enrofloxacin (5 mg/kg subcutaneously every 12 h for 10 days) failed to eliminate Pasteurella multocida from all naturally and experimentally infected rabbits. Although the enrofloxacin concentrations in serum and in turbinate bones were greater than the determined minimal inhibitory concentrations, P. multocida could be detected in nasal cavities, turbinates, trachea, middle ear and outer ear of experimentally infected rabbits after treatment. It is to be supposed that P. multocida colonizes organs or tissues in which an effective enrofloxacin concentration cannot be achieved. Such sites could be the paranasal sinuses, the auditory tube and the middle ear. This finding underlines the indispensibility of in vivo testing of antibiotic effectiveness.

PMID: 7603006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
MeSH Terms, Substances
Terry
Help keep two Medical Service Dogs in top health: gofundme.com/1yvfgk

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 4056
Joined: March 5, 2011
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 186 in 173 posts
BunnyBucks: 22,550.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Secuono » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:56 pm


"use the powder tetracycline in the drinking water, treatment level (One Tablespoon per 5 gallons)[warning, new batch every 24 hours]from now untill one week post partum, then, go to maintenance level for the kits in their drinking water -0ne teaspoon per gallon- until you remove them from mom. Then, you can cull those does.
Notice-- this article below states that Baytril will not effectively rid an animal of the disease!!! Just helps prevent the kits from developing it before weaning..."



Wait...
The sick doe is still with the kits and nursing them until weaning. Why would you give less or is it that mom is still getting the tablespoon per 5gal and then the 1wk kits get fed 1 teaspoon per 1gal treated water? Wouldn't you have to hand feed them some of this water every day?? Kits don't start out the nest until 2wks or later, they may not even try water until 3wks. So wouldn't you want to keep all at 1 tablespoon per 5gal until you see them regularly drink water? But then what of the doe? I'm not getting all the info...

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6623
Joined: February 9, 2011
Location: Texas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 470
Thanked: 613 in 500 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,400.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#10  Unread postby OneAcreFarm » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:03 pm


You will also want to wean them extra early...like 2.5 to 3wks.
Image

http://www.oneacrefarmrabbits.com
~A micro-attempt at self-sufficiency~

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 4056
Joined: March 5, 2011
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 186 in 173 posts
BunnyBucks: 22,550.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#11  Unread postby Secuono » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:09 pm


But I'm still not getting it. Why give the meds if it doesn't fix the issue, it's only keeping them from catching it, right? Then, wouldn't it not matter when they wean? Would you be able to move the kits as soon as they are born to a clean doe and then not need to be giving the litter or the new mom the drugs?
Maybe a tablespoon in 5gal to all until 4wk weaning would help more so than changing to a weaker solution...


I want to try this with one of the does or both and see if does anything. But I don't understand the details.

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6623
Joined: February 9, 2011
Location: Texas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 470
Thanked: 613 in 500 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,400.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#12  Unread postby OneAcreFarm » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:13 pm


I think the idea is to wean them early so you can dispatch the doe. The longer she stays around, the more chance of her infecting the kits. And NO, I would not move them to a clean doe...too much risk.
Image

http://www.oneacrefarmrabbits.com
~A micro-attempt at self-sufficiency~

8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
Posts: 4056
Joined: March 5, 2011
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 186 in 173 posts
BunnyBucks: 22,550.00

Re: Treating Pasteurella infected does prior to kindling...

Post Number:#13  Unread postby Secuono » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:23 pm



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests