Oxankle, I'm not familiar with ceresia lespedeza, but if it is a safe rabbit food you can just feed it as hay. No need to grind or chop it. Feed grain and greens separately. This is what I do with alfalfa hay. I haven't fed pellets for several years.

I'm not surprised the plants are getting eaten down to nothing or that the rabbits prefer broad-leaved weeds to grasses. Grasses rank pretty low on a rabbit's preferences and if you watch wild rabbits, they seek out the weeds first. They are better sources of nutrition. I cut a big bucketful daily for mine, more if the population warrants it. Those fryers are just eating machines.

Maggie; my only experience with ceresia is with cattle. It is a tough forb, and cattle prefer more tender food but will eat the tops of it off if hungry. It makes a very rich hay, and fed as hay in winter the cattle will nose the leaves out of a trough and push out the stems, which are very tough. If it is chopped in a grinder the cattle eat it all, leaves and stems, just as they will corn and cobs.

I know rabbits will eat stems and all green, but I do not know what they would do with ceresia hay. I'm going to find out.

Thanks for explaining that point, Oxankle. If the stems are that tough, they may not eat them. Let us know how your experimenting with it goes... Always happy to learn more about bunny foods.

I was enjoying reading and learning in this conversation until I learned you shot your cat! Especially a tame housecat! May I suggest having some compassion for your natural predator companion. He only did what cats do, why we have had cats as pets for a millenium, they kill small furry things. That's usually a good thing (mine brings home gophers and rats!) I am setting my colony up to keep my cats out. I am sad to hear you did that. I hope you don't get more cats.

I grew up very different then most people I guess. I cannot count the number of "pets" we ended up shooting while growing up. We had over 40 cats, a few dogs, cows, horses, goats, pigs, etc etc. When it came to our cats, by in large if a shot of penicillin didn't cure it, it was shot. They just didn't justify spending money at the vet to cure anything they might come down with.
This "tame house cat" was actually an outside cat, and she was about 10 years old anyways, her life expectancy was about used up. Winters were getting harder on her, etc etc.
While I enjoy animals, I'm also a realist. I absolutely never get close to animals. I enjoy them, have fun with them, heck my dogs even sleep in our bed. I do have compassion for my animals, however I do not have any qualms about shooting them if or when the time comes. I should also say, I get absolutely no satisfaction in shooting said animals. To me it's no different then shoveling manure out of the coop (I know, that sounds cold) but that's how I am.
I don't have a lot of money, and I must pursue the most financially efficient method to deal with issues that arise. Most the stuff I've built for my rabbits, and chickens is second hand, third hand, if not more. If I had loads of money, I would definitely handle things different. I would enjoy having some cats to keep the rodents at bay(not that we have many). If you ever find a vet that will explain the cold hard facts, a well placed bullet is far more humane then having them euthanized. The butanal (if I spelled it correctly) that they inject into an animal to put it down, is a very painful drug, although quickly acting, actually causes more pain then a well placed bullet.

JaredI, a well-placed bullet is a humane way of dispatching an ailing animal, but not too many of us would shoot a pet cat because it killed livestock that we had failed to contain properly. I think that is the reason that some of us were upset with your original post about shooting the cat. It sounded like you shot it because it killed a rabbit kit. If you don't explain things clearly, it is not surprising if you are misunderstood.

My cat, Marilla, is nine years old. As far as I am concerned she is only middle-aged and I certainly hope she will be with us for many years to come. I think you are missing one of life's joys if you never allow yourself to become close to an animal.

Would be extremely difficult (and expensive) to make my outdoor colony 100 percent predator proof. As it stands, I have no other cats, so no more will get shot, unless it be a stray that comes in and bothers my rabbits.

It's not that I don't care about and enjoy animals. I take excellent care of them. Becoming attached to an animal that you know has a much shorter lifespan then yourself is setting yourself up for heartache and misery when that animal dies, or has to be put down. I'm a simple man, and don't wish to burden myself with that situation.

I know my views about animals are shared by very few. I know my views sound cold hearted. Trust me, I'm not. I won't mention any more about shooting anything.

I don't think you are cold-hearted, Jared. And I understand your reasoning about the shorter lives of animals. Each person is different. I guess I belong to the school of "better to have loved and lost than never loved at all."

i agree with jaredi for the most part. when you live on a more of a basic farm then that is the way things are. though personally i would try to find the cat or dog a home for someone in town or without rabbits/chickens. i finally found a home for my dog about a month ago. she was almost shot several times by myself and my aunt (she is my neighbor as well). i almost had to shoot her for going after my goats. even though she was raised around them it was just in her breeding. my aunt has cows. and they almost shot the dog for harassing there cows.

on the other hand once the animals is out of the animal pasture or completely away from them and has not really harmed them then there is no reason to shoot it. such as my "uncle" did once. they actually chased the dog around the pasture, into another pasture that the cows were in, kept it there until someone could get him a gun, and shot the dog, then called my dad about a half hour later saying only that he needs to come get his dog. it took him over an hour to find the dog and the dogs whole leg was litteraly blown off and hanging by bits of skin. there was no saiving it and it had to be shot by my dad to put it out. now in this situation it is completely different and i would love to shoot my "uncle" the same way he did that dog and let *him* run around for an hour.

just how i sees it...

How did the colony survive the winter? I like your setup. BTW, I didn't even think twice about you killing the cat. Outdoor cats don't live much past 10 years anyway. I had an indoor cat that lived 20 years, but outdoor cats don't usually last over 10. I once had an outdoor cat that would kill baby bunnies in the wild. I would find pieces all over the place. The cat would have probably continued to try and get the kits so that was a logical solution. I don't think anyone would have taken in a 10 yr old outdoor cat. Some people treat their pets like their kids. I don't take my dog on outings to petsmart(this really annoys me), on vacation with me(unless I'm going camping) or any of those silly things...lol

We had a extremely mild winter here, usually it gets as cold as 40 below, this year I don't think the temp dropped below 0 for more then a day or two. I put an old pickup topper in the colony and stuffed it with hay (mostly alfalfa, and crested wheat grass) after they chewed that up they proceeded to dig a warren under it. I also took a 250gal plastic chemical tote, cut that in half, installed a heat lamp, and cut a small doorway, this is what I kept their water in, which stayed mostly thawed (next year I'll add a little insulation to it). All the rabbits survived the winter just great, even managed to get a few litters to boot. I have found several dead kits pushed out of the hole. I am hoping this is because the mothers are first time moms and inexperienced. Two litters (I think) survived, about 16 little buggers running around. I see some does carrying straw down some holes, so I presume there are more litters around.
I did lose my NZ buck, found him dead one morning (nice day outside) with a little blood on his nose. I let my California buck out of his pen(in the colony) and he seems to have taken to the girls pretty good. I do believe one of the girls is in fact a buck (another NZ) and after watching them fight a little bit, I'm pretty sure that may be how the other buck died.
I have expanded the colony by another 1000 square feet, with plans on doubling the size sometime this summer, perhaps even tripling it. There is a dead spruce tree (laying on its side) in the new expansion. I cut off the branches pointing up, and threw those and some fresh cut cedar boughs over the trunk, creating a new natural looking shelter, this was done in a somewhat open area so should also provide some protection from the darn hawks.
All in all I think the colony has been fairly successful. If it continues to work well, I am going to build another one or two soon, perhaps some different breeds of rabbits for those.

Thanks for the update, Jared! It's great that your rabbits are doing so well.

Can we get a picture of the whole setup? That would be neat to see!

I will try to get some pictures posted soon. I struggle with this technical stuff, seems the only way I've been able to accomplish this is by linking my facebook photo album.
I have at least 9 new babies running around, perhaps more, terribly hard to count them.
For the summer I have opened up the colony entirely, they now have all the acreage their hearts desire. I opened the gate which allows access to the yard, and beyond, hopefully I'll reduce my feed bill, and not have to mow the flipping yard this summer. I continue to feed and water them in the original colony, though they are barely touching the food. Lots of green grass, and other stuff to nibble on elsewhere. They can however run any direction they choose for as far as they wish. I am banking on the fact that the colony is the only home they know, I believe they will stay fairly close, and they seem to always come back for water and snacks (so far)
I protected the flowers and trees in the yard, and they seem very content to run around and eat what they choose. I run a higher risk of predator's but I figure the worst case scenario is I'll have smart free ranging domestic rabbits, or no rabbits.
We have 3 outdoor cats now, just showed up one day, and they even lay down beside the rabbits during the day. Had one younger rabbit (3 months old maybe) dominate one of the outdoor cats. I don't know which was funnier, the act or the look of surprise in the cats eyes.
If they can at least maintain their population, it is neat to look out the window and see big white rabbits bouncing around the farm, interacting with the chickens, guineas, pigs and even the calves.