How did lynx happen

[Alaska Satin]

Oh I don't know how, but its himilayan. Eyes pink as bubble gum. That's why I thought it was a rew! So you're saying it came from the smoke pearl mom?

What a himi kit means is at least one of the parents has himi <ch> at the second locus, and the other parent has either himi <ch> or REW <c> at the second locus.

The C series, in order of descending dominance, includes:
<C> full color
<cchd> chinchilla
<cchl> sable aka shaded
<ch> himi
<c> REW

Basically, both parents have to carry himi or something recessive to himi (which is only REW), to produce a himi kit.

You already know the smoke pearl has sable <cchl> in the dominant position; it can't have another <cchl> or it would be a seal, so it has to have either <ch> or <c> at the second position.

And you know that the chocolate agouti (assuming that is really what it is) has full color <C> in the dominant position, so it must also have either a <ch> or <c> to be able to produce a himi kit, since anything more dominant (i.e. another <C>, chinchilla <cchd>, or sable <cchl>) would overpower the himi <ch>.

So, the smoke pearl is either <cchl ch> or <cchl c>.
The choc agouti is either <C ch> or <C c>.
The himi kit is either <ch ch> or <ch c>.

 

[ida1416]

Oh I don't know how, but its himilayan. Eyes pink as bubble gum. That's why I thought it was a

What a himi kit means is at least one of the parents has himi <ch> at the second locus, and the other parent has either himi <ch> or REW <c> at the second locus.

The C series, in order of descending dominance, includes:
<C> full color
<cchd> chinchilla
<cchl> sable aka shaded
<ch> himi
<c> REW

Basically, both parents have to carry himi or something recessive to himi (which is only REW), to produce a himi kit.

You already know the smoke pearl has sable <cchl> in the dominant position; it can't have another <cchl> or it would be a seal, so it has to have either <ch> or <c> at the second position.

And you know that the chocolate agouti (assuming that is really what it is) has full color <C> in the dominant position, so it must also have either a <ch> or <c> to be able to produce a himi kit, since anything more dominant (i.e. another <C>, chinchilla <cchd>, or sable <cchl>) would overpower the himi <ch>.

So, the smoke pearl is either <cchl ch> or <cchl c>.
The choc agouti is either <C ch> or <C c>.
The himi kit is either <ch ch> or <ch c>.

That makes sense. Thanks so much for the detailed breakdown it helps a lot. The sire may have had rew because in his litter with the orange doe there was a rew. Did you look at those pics back up the thread of the mystery colored kit? I know they arent the best but does it look lynx to you or something else?

 

[Alaska Satin]

That makes sense. Thanks so much for the detailed breakdown it helps a lot. The sire may have had rew because in his litter with the orange doe there was a rew. Did you look at those pics back up the thread of the mystery colored kit? I know they arent the best but does it look lynx to you or something else?

Yep, if he produced a REW he definitely carried <c>. That means your doe is <ccchl ch>, and the himi kit is <ch c>.

I did look at the photos of the mystery baby. The white undertail and belly would rule out dilute torts, but I can't really commit to calling it a lynx versus a cream. I guess I'd lean toward cream since there are orange tints both on the newborn and later photos, although I'd agree the blue areas are quite pale blue. But there's no discernible pinkish brown hue which I expect in a dilute chocolate; on the other hand, that could be an artifact of my computer screen...

Those two colors can be so similar and are so subtle that I've never felt confident about calling any rabbit a cream or a lynx unless I cold see the ring pattern (or no rings, in the case of cream), or else the colors/genotypes of the parents ruled out one or the other. Sorry...

 

[judymac]

its himilayan. Eyes pink as bubble gum

There are five possibilities on the 'C' gene, in descending order of dominance: Full color 'C', chinchilla 'chd' where the dark colors are fine but the yellow shades are missing, sable 'chd' where the dark colors are lessened to sepia and the yellow is still missing, Himalayan 'ch' (aka pointed white or Californian) where the color is removed from everywhere but the cooler points, and finally albino REW (ruby/red-eyed-white) 'c' where the rabbit can be genetically any color at all--but the albino gene shuts down the pigment factories so it can't make the color--leaving an all white rabbit with pink/ruby eyes.

Since Himi is recessive to everything but albino, either rabbit could carry a recessive copy. If one of the parents carries a recessive REW albino, and the other a recessive Himi, Himi wins as it is more dominant than albino.

 

[ida1416]

Yep, if he produced a REW he definitely carried <c>. That means your doe is <ccchl ch>, and the himi kit is <ch c>.

I did look at the photos of the mystery baby. The white undertail and belly would rule out dilute torts, but I can't really commit to calling it a lynx versus a cream. I guess I'd lean toward cream since there are orange tints both on the newborn and later photos, although I'd agree the blue areas are quite pale blue. But there's no discernible pinkish brown hue which I expect in a dilute chocolate; on the other hand, that could be an artifact of my computer screen...

Those two colors can be so similar and are so subtle that I've never felt confident about calling any rabbit a cream or a lynx unless I cold see the ring pattern (or no rings, in the case of cream), or else the colors/genotypes of the parents ruled out one or the other. Sorry...

No need to apologize. I really appreciate your help. I think the point of cream kits being produced in another litter by the buck is probably good reason to suspect cream in the mystery kit!

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

I got a Martenized Blue Himi from a Smoke Pearl and a REW. Turns out a grandparent of the Smoke Pearl was a Martenized Himi. Crazy how it can carry that far (I don't remember seeing any other himis on the pedigree, but I could be wrong and there might be one or two)

 

[MsTemeraire]

I got a Martenized Blue Himi from a Smoke Pearl and a REW. Turns out a grandparent of the Smoke Pearl was a Martenized Himi.

Unless the Smoke Pearl was a marten then it can't have come from there and must have come from the REW.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Unless the Smoke Pearl was a marten then it can't have come from there and must have come from the REW.

I'll try and remember to check their pedigrees when I get home

 

[Alaska Satin]

I'll try and remember to check their pedigrees when I get home

It doesn't matter if marten is on the pedigree - the important part is whether your smoke pearl is really a smoke pearl (which is a self <aa>) and not a martenized smoke pearl (which is <at a>). Just check the rabbit for those little silvery markings around the nostrils, ears and feet that you can see on your blue himi. It'll have a creamy white belly, too, but that may not be as obvious on a smoke pearl if she's a lighter one.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

It doesn't matter if marten is on the pedigree - the important part is whether your smoke pearl is really a smoke pearl (which is a self <aa>) and not a martenized smoke pearl (which is <at a>). Just check the rabbit for those little silvery markings around the nostrils, ears and feet that you can see on your blue himi. It'll have a creamy white belly, too, but that may not be as obvious on a smoke pearl if she's a lighter one.

He's definitely not a Marten

 

[Alaska Satin]

He's definitely not a Marten

But he's definitely adorable!!!

What great photos!

Because he is a smoke pearl, not martenized, he is a self <aa>. Your martenized blue himi kit has one copy of the tan allele <at>, and one copy of the self allele <a> from the sire. The <at> must have come from the REW, since the smoke pearl buck didn't have one to give.

So now you know your REW doe is <at_ ?? cc ?d ??>
<at_> because she made a marten (if there were any selfs in the litter, you'd know she was <at a>)
<??> because she could be black, black carrying chocolate, or even chocolate, since the buck's black (dominant allele <B>) can overpower one or two chocolate <b> alleles.
<cc> because she is REW
<?d> because you know she at least carries a copy of dilute <d> since she made a dilute baby, the blue himi; she may have a dense color <D> or another dilute <d> in the first spot. Since the buck is a dilute you know he's <dd> so if they made any dense-colored babies you'd know she was <Dd>.
<??> in the E place since you have no idea what she carries there from this baby. At least she or the buck have a dominant <E> in one place, but you can't really know what else is there from this one baby.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

But he's definitely adorable!!!

What great photos!

Because he is a smoke pearl, not martenized, he is a self <aa>. Your martenized blue himi kit has one copy of the tan allele <at>, and one copy of the self allele <a> from the sire. The <at> must have come from the REW, since the smoke pearl buck didn't have one to give.

So now you know your REW doe is <at_ ?? cc ?d ??>
<at_> because she made a marten (if there were any selfs in the litter, you'd know she was <at a>)
<??> because she could be black, black carrying chocolate, or even chocolate, since the buck's black (dominant allele <B>) can overpower one or two chocolate <b> alleles.
<cc> because she is REW
<?d> because you know she at least carries a copy of dilute <d> since she made a dilute baby, the blue himi; she may have a dense color <D> or another dilute <d> in the first spot. Since the buck is a dilute you know he's <dd> so if they made any dense-colored babies you'd know she was <Dd>.
<??> in the E plae since you have no idea what she carries there from this baby. At least she or the buck have a dominant <E> in one place, but you can't really know what else is there from this one baby.

The only other Kit (alive long enough to know the color) of hers is a Smoke Pearl she had with the same Buck

 

[Alaska Satin]

The only other Kit (alive long enough to know the color) of hers is a Smoke Pearl she had with the same Buck

So then you know she's <at a> since both parents had to give a copy of <a> to that self <aa> smoke pearl kit.

You also know that the sire is <cchl ch> (sable and himi alleles), since all the doe has to give is <c>. And you know the kits are <ch c> for the himi and <cchl c> for the smoke pearl, as well as <dd> since they're both dilutes.

Fun!

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

The REW has two Himis and an Otter and the Smoke Pearl has multiple Himis and his grandfather was a Himi marten
Buck's had many Himi Kits with a different Doe and none were martens