ramblingrabbit
Well-known member
Hi folks! It's been a while since I've visited Rabbit Talk. We've settled into a routine with our rabbitry recently that has been working well, and so other projects have been taking more of our attention and R and D.
Recently, though, I've been dreaming of transitioning to a colony type set up, and so I thought back once more to good old RT. Since I don't know anyone personally who has done something like I'm envisioning, though I know locally a couple of people who have had colonies of sorts (one was for pet rabbits, so breeding concerns weren't addressed, however--and the other seemed to be casually for meat purposes, but was just not designed or managed well so it stank and looked awful, allowed rabbits to escape, and didn't seem to provide them with much meat). I'm hoping to visit the former person next month for ideas tho and to grill her on fencing solutions etc all the same.
Current situation background with meat rabbits:
We are using individual free-standing wooden hutches with wire flooring--they were built one at a time along the way from scrap wood, so each one looks a little different, but all are roomy and provide adequate shelter. They are underneath a shady mango tree which provides midday and afternoon shade. We have 3 breeding does of different ages, one being quite old now but still fertile, and one young doe about to be bred for the first time, and one young buck. Each has their own hutch. We also have two grow-out hutches, and one simple bottomless rabbit tractor that works very well, that they normally graduate to for the last few weeks before slaughter. Twice a day we feed OG pellets, and a couple of bucketfuls of fresh greens from around the farm (particularly ti leaves [Cordyline fruticosa/terminalis], pidgeon pea leaves, sweetpotato vines, plus various greens and herbs from the garden, weeds, and other things as available) as well as rationed amounts of sugarcane stem, ripe bananas, beets, and carrots. We wean does at about 1 month after kindling, and rebreed as soon as they are in good condition and receptive after that. This is Hawaii so the greens are available steadily yearround and winter temps are not a concern. Summer heat is an issue sometimes, but the shade tree mitigates that, and temps are rarely higher than mid 90s during the day, cooler at night. Tradewind breezes are the norm. So not enough to cause heat stress, and usually not enough to affect fertility, unless its a really bad el nino year like the last two summers.
I'm considering colony models for a couple reasons:
1. I would like to shorten and simplify the daily feeding and related chores. Emptying those buckets of greens over a fence into one or two communal mangers seems a lot simpler than having to go from hutch to hutch distributing the mixture of greens evenly among rabbits in appropriate sized piles (nursing does get big pile, buck gets littler pile, etc), and having to open and close seven different hutches, plus a tractor, and check seven different water bottles, twice day. We divide up the work, and it's routine enough now, but still, a more efficient system would be ideal.
2. Actually this is the more important: I've never been totally comfortable with having animals confined in such small spaces, and on metal wire to boot. It was one reason that I hesitated to get into rabbit keeping in the first place, because it seemed to be the standard model. I understood why, especially after I did more research, and eventually went with it, in lieu of any other tried-and-true model to follow, once I became convinced of the many other virtues of rabbit raising. But I just wasn't crazy about it and still am not. I don't believe that our rabbits are miserable by any means, and so I don't have a problem with other people doing hutches of course provided they are humanely designed and properly sited and reasonably roomy, because they obviously have their advantages. But having spent years doing "natural farming" and improving our chicken coop to incorporate natural foraging behaviors, and raising muscovies free-range, I would like to do something more in line with my philosophies and aesthetic values in terms of housing them in a way that allows for more expression of the "rabbit-ness of the rabbit." Being able to watch them run laps and interact in the fresh air and sunshine is appealing. And having several years experience with rabbits now I feel puts us in a better position to anylize behavior and sort out problems that may arise in a more complicated social setting. Having rabbits that grow a little slower, or produce darker meat because of the excercise, is just fine--I actually believe, as with other animals, that extra excercise develops flavor and nutritional profile in a positive way, rather than making meat "gamey" or "tough" or being "less-efficient" (meat should taste like the animal it came from and be a distillation of the experiences of the healthy and well-expressed life that animal lived--animals are not just meat-producing machines that eat and poop).
My Current vision:
Please feel free to point out any problems you forsee--that's why I'm posting! But this is what I'm envisioning currently. A colony enclosed by a perimeter fence, probably chicken wire or welded wire (depending on what we can afford), on metal posts, with hardware cloth or similar buried underground, or maybe buried paving stones (if affordable), to discourage easy digging under it. It would be sited on high or at least sloping ground that won't flood in heavy rain, probably somewhere in our orchard, so that at least half of the area is in shade (I think this is really important in the tropics). I'm picturing a raised mound of dirt, artificially constructed if necessary, in the very center of the enclosure, with perhaps some kind of slab-like thing on top, like a piece of roofing material, or a pile of large rocks, or a log, (or maybe a tree?) or something, that would make this the appealing, flood-proof, cool area to burrow into, and discourage burrowing under the fencing or elsewhere. From what I've read rabbits like to burrow under structures, as well as into sloping ground rather than flat, it seems...? I would add a small feeding area in one corner of the perimeter fence that would contain some racks or mangers to hold greens, some kind of rain-proof pellet dishes (or cover the feeding area to keep it dry), and some watering devices. This would have a gate that we could easily but securely close, so that we could catch rabbits. I hear that rabbits kept in outdoor colonies with underground burrows aren't very tame. I don't mind if I have to deal with crazy wild young rabbits once a month or so--I can use a net and wear appropriate protective clothing if needed, but I'd rather not resort to trying to pick them off with a bow or something, as I've heard of some people doing... :shock:
The buck would be housed separately, and we would catch does at feeding time and breed them with the buck before returning to the colony. That way we could still keep track of breeding and regulate it.
Some Key Point that Concern me right now:
-I can't afford to spend a lot of money on materials. We can borrow earth moving equipment to make a mound, and probably steal some large rocks from somewhere. We have some metal posts on hand already. Hardware cloth and chicken wire are pricey-ish but we could probably swing these.
-However it's also important that it look generally tidy, both initially and down the road, and not like a "rabbit ghetto." We have farmstay rental guests and visitors to the farm for tours and such as well and it can look "rustic" or simple for sure but not ugly, cluttered with "stuff", or foul. In addition, my mother's (the boss's) aesthetic and organizational sense is particularly offended by having things too messy or red-neck looking...
-Predators are not an issue. Dogs could be, but our dog is well-trained and kept under control at all times, and so far we haven't had issues with the neighbors dogs bothering our animals--there is a leash law in place but it's frequently flouted. Would burying a foot or two of hardware cloth, combined with creating an inviting burrowing area away from the fencing and controlling the population (of course), be enough to contain them? Even hardware cloth rusts pretty quick here, but I don't think we can afford to pour concrete several feet down or buy anything much heavier duty.
-How big would it have to be to stay green inside? We get a lot of rain, and it can't become a soggy cesspit. I think, like a chicken run, it needs to either be small enough to cover it with a roof and manage it intensively with bedding, or be large enough that it won't become overused. This is not a trivial question, because of the expenses involved with fencing,-- labor etc! :x
-Is it possible to introduce our existing herd of does--or part of it--to a colony lifestyle, or does that cause a lot of problems with fighting, etc? Is it always necessary to start with young litter mates or others raised together? Is there anyway to predict how their personalities or ages will affect the integration, or ways to make the transition easier?
-How does one collect manure from an outdoor colony? Will there be a couple of "potty corners" where we can wheel in a barrow and rake and scoop without much hassle? The production of manure is secondary for us, but still important to the farm, so if theres any way to facilitate this in a colony that would be great.
-If there are one or more trees within the fence, is it likely that the rabbits will completely destroy the roots or girdle the bark off a mature tree? How might this be prevented if so?
~~~
Sheesh! Sorry for such a long post!
But any advice, suggestions, or merciless critiques on any part of it are welcome if you have the time. Thanks!
Recently, though, I've been dreaming of transitioning to a colony type set up, and so I thought back once more to good old RT. Since I don't know anyone personally who has done something like I'm envisioning, though I know locally a couple of people who have had colonies of sorts (one was for pet rabbits, so breeding concerns weren't addressed, however--and the other seemed to be casually for meat purposes, but was just not designed or managed well so it stank and looked awful, allowed rabbits to escape, and didn't seem to provide them with much meat). I'm hoping to visit the former person next month for ideas tho and to grill her on fencing solutions etc all the same.
Current situation background with meat rabbits:
We are using individual free-standing wooden hutches with wire flooring--they were built one at a time along the way from scrap wood, so each one looks a little different, but all are roomy and provide adequate shelter. They are underneath a shady mango tree which provides midday and afternoon shade. We have 3 breeding does of different ages, one being quite old now but still fertile, and one young doe about to be bred for the first time, and one young buck. Each has their own hutch. We also have two grow-out hutches, and one simple bottomless rabbit tractor that works very well, that they normally graduate to for the last few weeks before slaughter. Twice a day we feed OG pellets, and a couple of bucketfuls of fresh greens from around the farm (particularly ti leaves [Cordyline fruticosa/terminalis], pidgeon pea leaves, sweetpotato vines, plus various greens and herbs from the garden, weeds, and other things as available) as well as rationed amounts of sugarcane stem, ripe bananas, beets, and carrots. We wean does at about 1 month after kindling, and rebreed as soon as they are in good condition and receptive after that. This is Hawaii so the greens are available steadily yearround and winter temps are not a concern. Summer heat is an issue sometimes, but the shade tree mitigates that, and temps are rarely higher than mid 90s during the day, cooler at night. Tradewind breezes are the norm. So not enough to cause heat stress, and usually not enough to affect fertility, unless its a really bad el nino year like the last two summers.
I'm considering colony models for a couple reasons:
1. I would like to shorten and simplify the daily feeding and related chores. Emptying those buckets of greens over a fence into one or two communal mangers seems a lot simpler than having to go from hutch to hutch distributing the mixture of greens evenly among rabbits in appropriate sized piles (nursing does get big pile, buck gets littler pile, etc), and having to open and close seven different hutches, plus a tractor, and check seven different water bottles, twice day. We divide up the work, and it's routine enough now, but still, a more efficient system would be ideal.
2. Actually this is the more important: I've never been totally comfortable with having animals confined in such small spaces, and on metal wire to boot. It was one reason that I hesitated to get into rabbit keeping in the first place, because it seemed to be the standard model. I understood why, especially after I did more research, and eventually went with it, in lieu of any other tried-and-true model to follow, once I became convinced of the many other virtues of rabbit raising. But I just wasn't crazy about it and still am not. I don't believe that our rabbits are miserable by any means, and so I don't have a problem with other people doing hutches of course provided they are humanely designed and properly sited and reasonably roomy, because they obviously have their advantages. But having spent years doing "natural farming" and improving our chicken coop to incorporate natural foraging behaviors, and raising muscovies free-range, I would like to do something more in line with my philosophies and aesthetic values in terms of housing them in a way that allows for more expression of the "rabbit-ness of the rabbit." Being able to watch them run laps and interact in the fresh air and sunshine is appealing. And having several years experience with rabbits now I feel puts us in a better position to anylize behavior and sort out problems that may arise in a more complicated social setting. Having rabbits that grow a little slower, or produce darker meat because of the excercise, is just fine--I actually believe, as with other animals, that extra excercise develops flavor and nutritional profile in a positive way, rather than making meat "gamey" or "tough" or being "less-efficient" (meat should taste like the animal it came from and be a distillation of the experiences of the healthy and well-expressed life that animal lived--animals are not just meat-producing machines that eat and poop).
My Current vision:
Please feel free to point out any problems you forsee--that's why I'm posting! But this is what I'm envisioning currently. A colony enclosed by a perimeter fence, probably chicken wire or welded wire (depending on what we can afford), on metal posts, with hardware cloth or similar buried underground, or maybe buried paving stones (if affordable), to discourage easy digging under it. It would be sited on high or at least sloping ground that won't flood in heavy rain, probably somewhere in our orchard, so that at least half of the area is in shade (I think this is really important in the tropics). I'm picturing a raised mound of dirt, artificially constructed if necessary, in the very center of the enclosure, with perhaps some kind of slab-like thing on top, like a piece of roofing material, or a pile of large rocks, or a log, (or maybe a tree?) or something, that would make this the appealing, flood-proof, cool area to burrow into, and discourage burrowing under the fencing or elsewhere. From what I've read rabbits like to burrow under structures, as well as into sloping ground rather than flat, it seems...? I would add a small feeding area in one corner of the perimeter fence that would contain some racks or mangers to hold greens, some kind of rain-proof pellet dishes (or cover the feeding area to keep it dry), and some watering devices. This would have a gate that we could easily but securely close, so that we could catch rabbits. I hear that rabbits kept in outdoor colonies with underground burrows aren't very tame. I don't mind if I have to deal with crazy wild young rabbits once a month or so--I can use a net and wear appropriate protective clothing if needed, but I'd rather not resort to trying to pick them off with a bow or something, as I've heard of some people doing... :shock:
The buck would be housed separately, and we would catch does at feeding time and breed them with the buck before returning to the colony. That way we could still keep track of breeding and regulate it.
Some Key Point that Concern me right now:
-I can't afford to spend a lot of money on materials. We can borrow earth moving equipment to make a mound, and probably steal some large rocks from somewhere. We have some metal posts on hand already. Hardware cloth and chicken wire are pricey-ish but we could probably swing these.
-However it's also important that it look generally tidy, both initially and down the road, and not like a "rabbit ghetto." We have farmstay rental guests and visitors to the farm for tours and such as well and it can look "rustic" or simple for sure but not ugly, cluttered with "stuff", or foul. In addition, my mother's (the boss's) aesthetic and organizational sense is particularly offended by having things too messy or red-neck looking...
-Predators are not an issue. Dogs could be, but our dog is well-trained and kept under control at all times, and so far we haven't had issues with the neighbors dogs bothering our animals--there is a leash law in place but it's frequently flouted. Would burying a foot or two of hardware cloth, combined with creating an inviting burrowing area away from the fencing and controlling the population (of course), be enough to contain them? Even hardware cloth rusts pretty quick here, but I don't think we can afford to pour concrete several feet down or buy anything much heavier duty.
-How big would it have to be to stay green inside? We get a lot of rain, and it can't become a soggy cesspit. I think, like a chicken run, it needs to either be small enough to cover it with a roof and manage it intensively with bedding, or be large enough that it won't become overused. This is not a trivial question, because of the expenses involved with fencing,-- labor etc! :x
-Is it possible to introduce our existing herd of does--or part of it--to a colony lifestyle, or does that cause a lot of problems with fighting, etc? Is it always necessary to start with young litter mates or others raised together? Is there anyway to predict how their personalities or ages will affect the integration, or ways to make the transition easier?
-How does one collect manure from an outdoor colony? Will there be a couple of "potty corners" where we can wheel in a barrow and rake and scoop without much hassle? The production of manure is secondary for us, but still important to the farm, so if theres any way to facilitate this in a colony that would be great.
-If there are one or more trees within the fence, is it likely that the rabbits will completely destroy the roots or girdle the bark off a mature tree? How might this be prevented if so?
~~~
Sheesh! Sorry for such a long post!
But any advice, suggestions, or merciless critiques on any part of it are welcome if you have the time. Thanks!