Socializing/taming bunnies

Alright, so long, long story short, Frost is the brother of Ollie (my bunny), and belongs to my 18 y/o sister. She keeps him in his cage in her room. When she goes to college in about 7 months, I'll be taking him. I work thirds, and she's still in high-school and works, so I rarely see her. She had the day off the other day for exams, and I popped into her room to ask for a DVD.

Frost had no pellets in his cage, only a few little wisps of hay, and no water. His litter was overflowing, and when I took a step towards the cage, he started bouncing off the walls and screaming. The type of screaming a terrified bunny does.

Turns out, he bit her a few weeks ago, and now she doesn't open his cage at all. Mom's been refilling his food and water and hay, and my sister just throws things at his cage when he makes any noise (he's not allowed toys, because they make noise). :evil:

I waited until she left today and picked the lock on her door, and sat by the cage. He screamed, bouncing off the walls for a bit, and then started constant, non-stop thumping, growling and lunging. He's been fixed, so it's not hormones. I think it's fear.

How on earth do I go about taming him down when I get him? I'd take him now, but my room is severely cramped as it is now, and there's no possible way I could fit him in my room. When I do get him, I can say now I'm putting him in a smaller cage (he's in a 48x36 dog crate now, and knows he can hide in the back and you can't reach him), and put on a healthier diet (he's never had fruit or veggies in his life. He only recently started getting hay... it was pellets only for him). Aside from that.... help??

Any chance your mom and sister would agree to the rabbit moving to a neutral location where you could work with him now? Or that you could reorganize your room to make space for him? The conditions you are describing are not humane and it does not sound as though you sister cares about him. Perhaps she would agree to part with him sooner.

Once you get him, make sure he has all he needs... Food, water, toys, clean cage. Offer him treats (a small cube of air-dried whole grain bread is good) through the wire until he begins to trust you. Avoid things that might scare him like sudden loud noises or loud music. It is going to take time and patience to turn him around.

Poor bun!

I'm guessing from his current treatment that she probably gave him a good reason to bite her, and he isn't predisposed to do so.

Maggie's got some great words for you. I can think of only one additional thing... I would definitely try to get him sooner rather than later. The longer he is treated like this, the longer and harder it will be for you to pull him out of it. Seven more months of this, and he may be ruined.

Frost really does need you now, I'm afraid.

I agree with what has been said by the others. I also want to mention that pellets only is not an unhealthy diet, depending on the pellets. If it is a good quality pellet and not full of junk, ie. corn, beans, colored bits, then what he is getting is healthy. Rabbits do not require fruit or vegetables, in fact a lot of that is bad for them. When you do change his diet, do it slowly or he may get diarrhea.

Just being in your room while you are moving around and stuff with nothing bad happening should pretty much get rid of that behavior quickly. Getting him friendly will take a little more work with treats and not forcing him out of his cage except when necessary.

Poor bunny, I'll admit I've yet to hear a rabbit scream, I think I'd cry if I saw a bunny frantically running around a cage screaming.
I'd like to offer that a change of housing my be nice for the bunny as well as a nice box or hide to feel safe in.
Whenever I get an abused animal, which has been most of my critters, my routine is change their house, whether it means scrubbing down and rearranging the old one or getting a new one altogether.
Keep the cage simple and clean with a space for the rabbit to hide and feel safe, a good cardboard box with peek holes is great.
Then talk to the bunny, just let him hear you coming, keep to a routine as best you can for changing litter, feed and water.
once you can walk into the room with out the rabbit screaming for its life I'd open the door of the cage and talk to it more, then I sit with my hand by the cage and if the bunny can be brave enough to not run away I'll leave a treat in his food bowl.
I think someone here said "never hand feed treats or the rabbit may think your hand is a treat" I think it was good advice and since have stopped feeding by hand.
Good luck with your rabbit, I think moving the bunny out of your sisters room would be a great first step, as the room smells of her, it will take time it always takes so much time.

Hand feeding treats to animals is perfectly fine. They can tell the difference between skin and food once they have some experience. Even something the size of a horse can take a small slice of something from your fingers safely. A dog the size of my 80lb akita can take treats the size of a pea without harming me. The problem only comes from animals who are insecure or poorly trained and snap to get the food thinking they will get in trouble or that they don't have to be respectful. Then your hand accidentally ends up with the treat. That's a lack of training issue not a treat feeding issue. The other problem is if you have a smelly treat they may smell it on your hand and when you run out of treat grab your finger because it still smells like treat. They usually immediately see their mistake and let go before doing damage but smelly treats should only be fed as the last thing you do and not before handling. At least until good training and experience is in place cause I use some awful smelly stuff to get my dogs and sometimes other animals motivated and still don't lose any skin while doing exciting stuff like agility courses.

calm, quiet and slow is what you want to be.

Sit quietly on the floor beside his cage. Do this often. And talk to him while doing so. I'd grab a book and just read it to him.

Hold things up for him to see and sniff and grab to eat. Think of foods that smell interesting.

Give him something to do...but what I would do is make sure whatever it is has your scent on it. So put a small block of wood in your pocket or something so it picks up some of your smell. What you are wanting to do is give him a reason to associate your smell and sound with something good.

NOTE: based this comment "and put on a healthier diet (he's never had fruit or veggies in his life. He only recently started getting hay... it was pellets only for him)" that you made I want to say this. There is NOTHING wrong with a pellets only diet. it is a balanced and healthy. Veggies and what not are treats. Even hay is a treat...albeit a treat given for fibre benefits generally.

Some very good ideas there.

Free-feeding hay is fine, or you can give it a couple times a week or something. It is true that rabbits don't need fruit and vegetables, as they are herbivores, not vegetarians. Fruits and vegetables can indeed be given as treats. It is greens that rabbits can typically eat as a main food, along with grains. You can look in the "natural feeding" area for guidance.

But the pellets, as long as they are good-quality pellets, are a complete diet. They provide everything a rabbit needs but water. You will most likely find the best quality pellets at a feed store, rather than a pet store or Walmart. The feeds at those places try to appeal to people, and so they put corn and all these colorful bits in there. Corn is like bunny candy, and those colorful bits are usually made from corn or fruit, and so they are basically candy, as well. The ones in the feed store are geared toward what the rabbit needs, rather than to human eye appeal.

You can get the hay at a feed store, too, and it will also usually be better quality than pet-store hay -- it will at the very least be much cheaper, and much fresher. Hay is very good for keeping things moving through the rabbit's system.

If you want to switch him to natural feed, be prepared for a learning curve. Definitely read the natural feeding forum. You will need to supplement with a mineral salt wheel. There are some on here who do it. Some of us feed pellets and hay, and supplement with some greens and veggie and fruit slices for treats. You may find your yard loaded with some of the greens that bunnies love, like dandelions!

We tamed up on of the of the bucks, our secret weapon was raisins!

Raisins can be a very powerful negotiating tool with rabbits.

Now see, other bunny forums dragged my tush over the coals because they were getting pellets. Worse things on the face of the earth, they'd have you believe, and while I did some research, all the links I was finding (granted, most of them were what I was getting from that crowd) was saying about how pellets cause all these health problems, and are the primary cause of obesity and early death in bunnies, and on and on. Ollie hasn't had pellets except for twice since I've had her. Unlimited hay, and veggies every day. Fruits on rare occasion as a treat. And yes, I feed lettuce quite often, but the dark greens and reds and 'healthy' lettuce, and things like kale and spinach and whatnot. I don't ever feed iceburg. But she doesn't get pellets. :t_oops:

I could get his cage in my room if I could stack them. I seriously have a 2 foot walkway from my door to my bed. I've got a Queen sized bed along the one wall, my dresser along the second, my night stand and Ollie's cage along the third, and the fourth has a book case and the door. It's small and tiny and cramped, and the room I'm inheriting is about 4 times bigger. Ollie was twitchy when I got her, but she calmed down pretty well... I left my radio on quietly so she got used to voices and noises, and if she would stay out in her crate when I was in the room, I slipped a dried cranberry into her treat dish. And then when she would come take a treat from me, it was this sweet 'bunny-treat' pretzel that I'm fairly sure is like Oreo cookies to bunnies, but quickly made her realize that my hand wasn't going to hit her or hurt her. And once she realized that, she totally transformed and now takes over the house, chasing the cats and challenging the dogs and circling my feet like a demented shark. But she was NEVER as bad as Frost is. /o\

How much is Frost's 'acting up' (I don't know what else to term it ATM) likely to scare or set Ollie going? Right now she sneaks into my sister's room whenever possible and cuddles up against the cage, to Frost's dismay/agitation, but I also taught her to avoid power cords by 'screaming' when she sniffed one. (Yes, it may have been mean, but it took 4 times, and she will freeze and creep around any 'cords' that she sees, which are rarely cords and more usually shoelaces or some such. Frost goes after them like they're bunny crack if he gets loose.) Will him screaming and spazzing upset her?

I feel so bad for the guy, and it just burns me up that she did this. She BEGGED for months for a rabbit. Pleaded and begged. And then when he didn't sit and cuddle with her all the time (hello, baby dwarf... not their personality, from what I understand), she got upset and stopped letting him out, except for occasion. And then this happened, and I'm just kinda shocked. I mean, really?? Yeah, Ollie's gotten me before (I didn't fully realize that females can be.... territorial at times), but it was -my- fault for not reading her right. I put her away so I wouldn't hurt her, went outside and scolded myself, and then left the situation alone overnight. I wouldn't dream of doing this crap to her.

Would stacking the cages be okay? Both are litter trained and use their boxes, and both crates have a solid bottom. Frost doesn't have anything but the slick plastic right now; Ollie has an old towel that she 'arranges' in there to cushion up the bottom. I'd probably still put something like a wood plank between the two cages, but I don't know what else to do. The curse of moving out into a house and then back in with your family, unfortunately takes up alot of space.

Sorry if this is rambley, I'm at the end of a REALLY long day, and a little fuzzy from lack of sleep. Ollie discovered that her metal treat pan makes this oh-so-delightful noise when you whack it against the bars. :?

I don't see why you couldn't stack the cages. Just about anything will be an improvement on the current situation.

I think that it is house rabbit people who frown on feeding pellets. They don't seem to get it that rabbits are herbivores, not vegetarians. In a natural setting they would be eating grasses, weeds, plant seeds and twigs and leaves from trees and bushes. The closest we can get to that is feeding hay (with at least some alfalfa or clover content) and gathered greens with small amounts of whole grain. Most people do not have enough land or enough time to do this, so they feed pellets. Good pellets are a complete diet for rabbits, although some hay and greens are a good addition.

Pet rabbits, however, cannot be fed unlimited pellets or they may become obese. Breeding rabbits use more energy and handle pellets well. The pellets from feed stores are generally better quality than those from pet shops. You could feed some pellets, some hay and some green leafy things with good results. See the Natural Feeding forum for ideas about free, gathered greens.

I don't think there would be a problem with stacking the cages either, I might put somthing like wood, like you mentioned, in between them, but it might be needed. Only of it sagged or somthing possibly.I would definetly try to get him moved to your room if ANY way possible. It would be better for him, and ease your mind a bit hopefully. Good luck, and we always like updates!

I think part of it is the pet rabbit crowd buy from the pet stores where the pellets are crap, will make your rabbit fat, and may cause other health issues. Feed store pellets don't have fancy bits that could cause health problems and are designed to be a complete diet while pet store pellets are designed to look good to people and so are full of rabbit candy.

SilverBlaze, it sounds to me like you have a natural ability to work with rabbits slowly and easily. You've done very well.

It is possible that Frost's freak-outs could freak Ollie out. You may have to win her back over as well, slowly. Hopefully, Frost will realize quickly that he isn't getting the treatment from you that he's been getting from your sister, and will stop the scrambling and screeching quickly. He may still unnerve Ollie for a while with stamping and growling. Ollie will need whatever extra attention and reassurance she will allow you to give her.

I understand about crowded bedrooms... I used to have about that much walkway in my room growing up. I'm glad you're trying to work out a way to fit Frost in in spite of the crowding, though. Sounds to me like the two are trained enough to be stacked like that. I guess the only concern would be Frost's antics upsetting the stack. Hopefully, you can figure a way to keep that from happening.

If you post pics of the cages, you might get some brainstorming from the good people here.

Cable ties stabilize anything that can hold it's own weight up. I did find you can't build 3 cages high using heavy powder coated panels even on the big ties without crashing. I'm not sure if it is good I was in the bottom cage filling hay at the time or bad. That hurt but my shoulders stopped the top 2 cages from breaking the rest of the ties and bringing the whole cage system forward. We went to pvc and wood supports for the more massive builds now but if you are just stacking things that fully support themselves you can prevent shifting with cable ties.

A board would help but you could also slide some foam on top of the board (not under where the below rabbit might be able to eat it) to cushion thumping sounds. One panicky bunny does cause confusion. A silly pest of a mini rex kept standing on my foot today every time I stopped moving and I ended up catching his hind leg under my foot when I stepped back so he screamed bloody murder despite being fine. Just temporarily stuck. Everyone went flying around in circles, except the older rabbits who perked their ears and basically went "dumb kids" and back to what they were doing, while I called them silly rabbits and brought them some hay. 2mins later it was all forgotten for the fresh hay. Throwing out handfuls of horse treats works just as well and distracts does when taking kits.