Second Strike....

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C

cereshill

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So, one of the Tenino sisters had Seven last week. One perished out of the box day three, the runt died two days ago in box and two others disappeared--one over the weekend and another since this morning. This is her sevond litter--she had seven at her first and ate 4 along with the nest box. We pulled the box previously and the rest survived

I have fostered the last three (all with full tummies so she feeds them!) to her sister (who has the two massive kits). I then checked and she was totally ripe! I have never seen a doe so purple....

SO, I rebred her to Claude (3 couplings) and she is eating hay/oats and looks like nothing has changed.

Thoughts?

Oh--I have two does rebred, so I can foster if need be...
 
So are you saying this is strike two for having difficulty with the kits?

What is causing the kits to die?
Cold weather combined with Lack of fur pulling?
Poor immune systems? Genetic problems?
Are they being dragged out of the nest box? if so. that might not be her fault, that might be a nest box design issue.

You can't fault her for eating the kits....that's just her cleaning up.

A doe having seven kits per litter is not one to easily dispose of.
I'd do some problem solving around her issues and see if they can be resolved.
 
The runt died in the box (that I do not fault her for as it was weak from the start); one I found outside on the floor. The other two, have just disappeared...?!

In her first litter, she ate the hay three nights in a row (replaced every am) and kits chilled/were gone in am.)
She has made a good nest and pulled plenty of fur; only had one death from being outside the box.
 
If she is eating the hay from the nest box, it is likely because she is not getting enough protein in her feed and it trying to make up for it with quantity. If you want better results, you are going to need to look at your management techniques. You can only go so cheap before you run into problems.
 
Well, I've said it in another of your threads, CH, but I'll say it again. You need a good legume hay - alfalfa or clover - if you are not going to feed pellets.

There are other plants with a reasonable protein content, but they can only do so much. Some people feed roasted soybeans, but they can only make up a fairly small amount of total consumption because they can be hard for rabbits to digest. Field peas are another source of protein. But by far the easiest and probably cheapest is good legume hay.
 
I know Maggie has a great sysytem that doesn't need pellets - but it took her a long time to develop

I would offer lactating and end stage pregnant does pellets until I was SURE I had a great system in place

(for me with fibre bunnies I also feed growing youth pellets) my bucks get pellets once or twice a week in the summer season and do well on that - but I really feel care has to be used
 
I have found that many of my does, when the get close to kindling, and a day or two afterward, seem to prefer hay to their pellets. If I find one that seems to be eating hay out of her nestbox, I always put more hay outside on the cage floor. In fact, I do this anyway, because some does will tear all the hay out and then put it back in "their own way". I put the nestbox in 10 days before the kits are due (so far, knock on wood, no problems with pooping in it) This serves two purposes. It gives them plenty of time (I have messed up a couple of times and been a week off), and they can eat the hay if they want. The more hay they eat, the more I put in. about 3 days befor they are do, I will put some hay outside... something to "make bones" with without disturbing the nest. I have never had a problem with does getting too fat eatting too much grass hay for a week.

Don't know if it would help, but it seems to work for me. I also "fluff up" the hay when I first put it in, and fill the box full, then make a tunnel down into it with my hand. They seem to prefer this to just putting hay in the bottom.
 
We will work to increae protein, for now with pellets. Have to find some better hay in my area. I did add a fair amount of extra hay for her as I suspected she would "eat the box". It did help, but the disappearance of two kits without a trace was concerning.

I have successfully fostered the three remaining to her sister (now with 5) and so the learning curve continues.

I can get pellets for $400/ton, so I may just buy half a ton and improve our herd feed that way for the nearterm. That being said, I will keep a control group on just oats/hay/greens to try to measure differences.
 
That sounds like a good plan, CH. :) Natural feeding without the preparatory stage is a tough proposition. Pellets will help you through it, bridging the gap until you can find sources for better hay and alternative feeds.
 

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