I'm curious what determines the red? Is it a dilute of something else? or is it on it's own like black? Dominant?
Red?
- Thread starter Anntann
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Red/orange is A- B- C- D- ee so it is a black based agouti with nonextension. In some breeds they then try to breed in modifiers that make the light belly go away so the rabbit is solidly red when in fact it is an agouti color.
moonkitten
Well-known member
Wow. Red is one of the most complicated genetics 
Definitely not a "red" gene, it's a combination.
A red is a "chestnut agouti" that has suppressed the dark pigment that would normally display. That's the 'ee' non-extension gene. Wideband also helps here 'ww'. Then you add in rufous modifiers to give the resulting orange rabbit a red hue.
A_B_C_D_eeww + rufous
Definitely not a "red" gene, it's a combination.A red is a "chestnut agouti" that has suppressed the dark pigment that would normally display. That's the 'ee' non-extension gene. Wideband also helps here 'ww'. Then you add in rufous modifiers to give the resulting orange rabbit a red hue.
A_B_C_D_eeww + rufous
I love the color RED and would love to have some. I always wanted children with red hair. It didn't happen. I guess that's why I am breeding rabbits.
So I'm going along with my broken blue & broken opal rex does. I bred them to what I had been sold as a broken amber buck. What did i get? Quite a variety of tort [both black and blue], broken tort and, of course, charlie torts. Now that I know I have that non-extension gene running rampant in my little herd I'm going to breed some of those torts to a castor and see If I can start my own red line. When Life gives you lemons....
So I'm going along with my broken blue & broken opal rex does. I bred them to what I had been sold as a broken amber buck. What did i get? Quite a variety of tort [both black and blue], broken tort and, of course, charlie torts. Now that I know I have that non-extension gene running rampant in my little herd I'm going to breed some of those torts to a castor and see If I can start my own red line. When Life gives you lemons....
okay...hrmmm...so...if one had an agouti bred to ...golly. have to go think about this.
now..what about "chocolate" or brown? That's one of those that just plain confuses me. It doesn't seem to be a dilute of anything. In angoras, it is a medium chocolate, but the wool fiber comes in at more "tan" or light chocolate. In beverens they're just plain deep chocolate. I vaguely remember being told that they breed the blue beveren (a light light blue) to something else to get the chocolate? (or am I hallucinating?)
now..what about "chocolate" or brown? That's one of those that just plain confuses me. It doesn't seem to be a dilute of anything. In angoras, it is a medium chocolate, but the wool fiber comes in at more "tan" or light chocolate. In beverens they're just plain deep chocolate. I vaguely remember being told that they breed the blue beveren (a light light blue) to something else to get the chocolate? (or am I hallucinating?)
Chocolate is sort of the opposite of black. You either get black B- or chocolate bb. Blue B- dd becomes lilac bb dd. Chestnut agouti A- B- D- or chocolate/cinnamon agouti A- bb D- . The shade of chocolate is just an effect of modifier genes that we don't know enough about to express.
Chocolate? Did I hear Chocolate? My favorite!!!!
so the alphabet soup of rabbit colors is one of my favorite topics to daydream about
A for agouti [dominant] AA or Aa gives you castor or opal when paired with the black gene, Amber or lynx when paired with the brown genes[also other things like chinchilla, but more on that another time]
a for self [recessive] aa gives you black or blue with the B gene, chocolate or lilac with the bb genes
B for black [dominant] BB of Bb
b for brown [recessive] bb
then we move in to the full color C gene or
Cchd dark chin
Cchm meduim chin
Cchl light chin
Ch hemi
c albino
D for intense color DD or Dd: castor, black, chocolate, amber
dd for dilute color: blue, opal, lynx, lilac
So that's a quick answer about chocolate. the color is NOT dilute but a dilute chocolate [self aa] is the lilac colored rabbit. another dilute chocolate color is lynx. that is when is it paired with the A gene for agouti.
so the alphabet soup of rabbit colors is one of my favorite topics to daydream about
A for agouti [dominant] AA or Aa gives you castor or opal when paired with the black gene, Amber or lynx when paired with the brown genes[also other things like chinchilla, but more on that another time]
a for self [recessive] aa gives you black or blue with the B gene, chocolate or lilac with the bb genes
B for black [dominant] BB of Bb
b for brown [recessive] bb
then we move in to the full color C gene or
Cchd dark chin
Cchm meduim chin
Cchl light chin
Ch hemi
c albino
D for intense color DD or Dd: castor, black, chocolate, amber
dd for dilute color: blue, opal, lynx, lilac
So that's a quick answer about chocolate. the color is NOT dilute but a dilute chocolate [self aa] is the lilac colored rabbit. another dilute chocolate color is lynx. that is when is it paired with the A gene for agouti.
ah...perhaps that what I vaguely remember...breeding a chocolate to a lilac gives you a lilac...derned if I remember. but...this is interesting. I shall learn.
graceface418
Member
I'm just learning, but I've been lucky with my red satins so far. The first litter are all red
Red to red should give you red...unless somebody carries an undesirable recessive. I have a red buck who carries REW (not uncommon in NZ), and a red doe who carries, of all things, chinchilla!! :shock: Of course she is half mutt, so that explains that.
I have also had reds that seemed to carry dilute, and gave me fawns--but that might just be a HUGE lack of rufous modifiers?
I have also had reds that seemed to carry dilute, and gave me fawns--but that might just be a HUGE lack of rufous modifiers?
It's kinda complicated, some have suggested that tan (modified agouti) with the ww ee +Rufus gives you a much tighter belly color BUT with the trade of of a very light vent
so with your reds, you have a hell of a time trying to figure out how to get the complete even red color you are looking for (at least in thrianta's)
so with your reds, you have a hell of a time trying to figure out how to get the complete even red color you are looking for (at least in thrianta's)
