Question for those that feed Kent

Ive been having some major issues over winter concerning nutritional deficiencies in the feed.
The biggest problem is animals not making senior weight, by alot in some cases.
Wool that doesn't grow, dozens of rabbits digging feed out of the feeders, increased cases of maloclussion, sore hocks on otherwise heavy fur footed animals, lowered immune systems, acting like they are starving even tho they have been eating more, reduced circulation in the ears of my short haired breeds, poor ear carriage on the tips of the ears, never coming into condition and older juniors losing weight for no other obvious reason. I'm not talking about a few rabbits here, Im talking about dozens and dozens.

These are some of what has been happening over the course of the last 6 months. This is an ongoing investigation involving 2 vets, the feed mill, Kent and myself.

I need to know if anyone here who feeds Kent has had ANY problems of any kind between last November and now, regardless of how minor. Anything happening that you may have brushed off as a fluke or isolated incident or probably because of a hard winter or anything that seemed weird, but you chalked it up to crap happens when you have rabbits or beginners unluck.

Thank you.

All my rabbits did great on Kent until we could get manna pro consistently late last winter. Never had a problem. Do you feed any hay? How strictly controlled is your pellet feeding? Mine were free fed kent, organic alfalfa at all times, and sometimes we rotated between pellets one day and a straight grain the next. They fill up faster on straight grain than pellet so even though it isn't much cheaper it takes quite a bit less and helps cut costs, especially in winter.

I might be wrong but I believe it was KENT that Grumpy was feeding when he lost a bunch of rabbits / you might do a search for his post on bad feed and dead rabbits

I believe that was Kent... however, a different mill or different conditions of storage can make all the difference.

Here's the thread, LFG.

It's a bit lengthy and I'm not sure if you can glean anything useful from it.
I've not used Kent since this happened. I'll never use it again because once
a person loses confidence in a product, they'll always be skeptical.

I feed the cheapest Purina blend I can buy: Country Acres @ $27.50 per 100.
It's "ingredients" label isn't the best, but I've not had any troubles with it.
I'll keep on using it once I've got the fodder system up and running. But, there
will be far less consumption once the stock is switched over to the fodder.
Kent had a lot of fines in it when I went back to it after the prices came
down. Country Acres has very, very few fines. That's a plus for me.

bad-feed-dead-rabbits-t20685.html

grumpy.

Thank you grumpy. Ill read it over and use it if I can.
akane, we know what the problem is, hands down, no doubt about it. I am very strict in my feeding practices and very consistent in my management. Collecting information other than my own is the next step. When I petition Kent for retribution I need all the supporting evidence I can get. <br /><br /> -- Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:27 pm -- <br /><br /> grumpy I sent you a private message

grumpy":naowm9ds said:

I feed the cheapest Purina blend I can buy: Country Acres @ $27.50 per 100.

Click to expand...

So they do still make it. I was comparing the first five ingredients on a number of brands in another thread, and I couldn't find Country Acres rabbit feed, so I used their horse feed instead.

I started out using Country Acres. It never gave me any problems. Then one day I was almost out of it, and the feed store was out of it, and my rabbits ended up on Purina Complete.

You've tried another pellet? If it's your mill then other rabbit pellets that go through that mill could have problems. There's also a difference between a problem with livestock feed and a problem with cat/dog feed. The pet food companies use a handful of major mills and ship the bags around the country so a recall is a nationwide problem. Livestock feed producers get most of their ingredients locally and have the pellet made in your area. So someone's problem half a country away is actually a separate issue from your problem. They would have to be feeding the same lots of feed as you. That's why some areas have constant problems with some very popular pellets such as manna pro comes up frequently and we never do except for the tendency of the feed store to run out of manna pro products. Actually we have very few livestock feed problems here at all. There's never any excess corn or anything. The only time we had unwanted ingredients is when we got bulk horse feed custom mixed. Whatever mills they use here seem to be good quality.

I have been wondering about Kent feed myself.
Grumpy's thread stays in the back of my mind a lot.
I thought I was safe with my feed.
Yesterday I flipped over the back of the feed bag and
did some serious reading. What I am using is Bunny 16,
that I buy from Country Max stores. It says it is Blue Seal.
I thought I was golden with my decision on using this product.
I now see that KENT makes Blue Seal AND Kent product lines.

Now I am thinking about health issues. Nothing major,
thanks goodness, but I guess I was thinking each thing that
came up was a fluke, or a isolated problem.

Now I am questioning everything in this past year.
I have 3 cali does that dig the feed out furiously as soon as it
goes in the j feeder. Within minutes.

I have 2 cali does that have 4 and 6 babies each current litters.
None lost. So getting low birth numbers from some of the does.
One mix doe has 9 and another has 10, these all made it.
Yet another mixed doe had 4 her first litter, all are good.
I have a mini lop with a current litter of 4. Her first litter here and
I have had her since last October. I was persistent on getting this
animal bred.
Molly my holland or mini lop, whichever she is, is looking out of
condition. She is now bred back. Has had 2 litters of 5 each.
She sits in the cage and looks depressed now. I gave her and
the babes I am weaning off her, a bowl of mini wheats last night.
Mob scene at the feed bowl.
Saving me, is that I make sure I keep the hay racks full.

A few rabbits I feed them cracked corn, oats, wheat, and
sunflower seeds mixed in. A couple times a week, they get
some regular pellets. Their body condition is good.

This could be a fluke or maybe the nutrition in the Kent feed.
The one cali doe that has 4, she did have a 5th one. It got
separted early on in the box but I saved it and put it back.
It's back feet were not moving much. I noticed it had a sore
like, on it's lower spine. It never got better, and I ended up
putting it down. So guess was a birth defect.
Molly the lop has a current babe that seems to have a back
problem. All the feet work and it crawls rather than walks.
Like a curvature in the back. I am not sure how to describe
it. You would not know the animal has a problem till it
goes to move. It keeps itself very clean and is totally a
cuddle bug. I guess it should be put down but I can't
bear to do that. It is a broken color, white with black.
There is no sores or pressure points on this animal.
Maybe it was a injury. I don't know for 100% sure.
At some point , it will have to leave mom as she
is now bred. I think it could stay with it's 2 siblings
that are girls that I want to raise for brood does.
I would love to make it a house pet but the basset
would not give it any peace and quiet.

So not sure what to base all these odds and ends on,
but I do have concerns with the current feed YES.
Before winter gets here, I will have changes in place.

^^^THIS^^^!!!

This is exactly what I mean. I had things happening over winter that seemed like flukes, or happenstances. I picked up a 5 month old satin angora doe I purchased from transport at Angora Nationals in Iowa in April. I weighed her that day because I showed her. She was 6.08 dead on. 5 weeks later I weighed her again for another show and she was 5.08. Now she is barely over 6.0. That is when it all clicked together in my head.

I have satin meat rabbits out of 10 1/2 pound parents that are topping out at 7 pounds at a year old, free feed all the time, and butchering out with excessive abdominal fat.

2acre do you happen to have any batch numbers from your bags?

Batch number is A1194 on the 3 bags I have here. One is empty,
one just opened yesterday and 1 more new bag. I keep the grain
in plastic barrels with lids. Two bags fit in my main barrel and I have
only one bag open at a time.

This morning, I did not feed the pellets. I fed the whole crew
the mix of corn, wheat, oats and pellets. The 3 calis dove in the
feed dishes and ate politely I call it. NO DIGGING
Molly's group got a bowl in center of cage with the mix. That was
gone is short order. I put a big handfull of plain wheat in later,
and Molly dove in again.
My rabbits are hungary for good feed. These pellets are
not doing the job. As mentioned, I fill the hay racks full, in the
morning and again at evening feeding.

I grew up on a dairy farm. I KNOW animals have to have quality
feed to keep them in good production.
I walked into a deal for thirty eight, 2 year old, layers last week. Today,
I had to buy some oyster shells for this group due to soft shell eggs. It never
ceases to amaze me what other people feed their animals and then boo
hoo when they don't get the production they think they should.

I got back into rabbits last June. I had a decent number going into winter.

I was feeding pellets from a local mill last fall that made their own pellets.
That mill closed in December. Bought out by Purina.
Then I got pellets made locally at a mill closer to me. My rabbits did not
like them. When Molly my lop says yucky, I pay attention.
I made a full switch aprroximately 6 months ago, to the Bunny 16 ( kent ).
That is the only pellets my rabbits have been getting. So pellets, hay,
water, and a few treats several times a week.

Is it possible to get money back from this company for the bad feed ?
I am so thankfull I have a computer and can read online about rabbits.

I do not feed kent, so i cannot help there. I have my own issues with pellets.
I was feeding Manna pro sho feed, but I've had a recent problem with cracked corn and even whole kernels mixed in my feed. I had weanlings get sick, and one died. I had mild digestive upset throughout the herd and lost a weeks growth.
I have been told that corn was normally omitted from rabbit feeds because corn is more likely to have harmful mold toxins than other grains.
I was also informed that corn is used to clean the machines.

Somehow, I doubt they use their very best and safest corn for machine cleaning.

I noticed the corn on the second day of feeding, and switched to a different bag I had that didn't have visible corn.

I returned the very obviously visually contaminated bag to the feed store, with the complaint that it was KILLING my weanlings. (well, only one actually died, but I didn't say that, who knows, maybe I would have lost more if I'd of continued feeding it?)

They took it back and replaced it with a fresh bag of the same brand of feed.

OK, so...what about all the other contaminated bags the mill must have produced? (I used that last bag of feed to switch my herd over to a different brand)

When I next returned to the store, the bag of feed I had returned was taped up and BACK ON THE SALE SHELF. For a discounted price.

SERIOUSLY?

What I get out of all this is that the mill workers and feed store workers have NO IDEA what they are doing.

It infuriates me to think that someone else will buy that bag and maybe lose babies of their own. I have no idea how widespread or common feed problems like that are, but since it was only the weakest kits that became obviously and dangerously ill... I feel the cause would have been easy to miss.

I also wonder if the digestive upset left my babies vulnerable to other bacteria that they would normally be able to resist, like say...e-coli from a visiting child's hands. Without a culture or testing I will never know the actual pathogen or feed toxin. But I do know.
They weren't sick before I opened up that new bag. The whole herd was affected. It stopped quickly when I switched them to an uncontaminated bag.

Feed companies are out to make a profit. The all mighty dollar is their goal.
It it means using cheaper ingrediants, they will.
It's buyer beware.

I made mention the other day to my son about this recent group of chickens.....
that I have to give them WHAT THEY WANT. Not what I think they need or want.
I have to watch them and pay attention. My rabbits are the same. If a bunny is
not acting right...then I better snap to it, and make fast changes.

I been buying wheat from a local farmer. I am going to see what else he
has for grain. His brother , another farmer, I just bought some REALLY nice
second cutting hay from him. Once I get the bunny room made bigger, I
will have a area just for hay. I can only store 2 bales right now.
I keep them in huge plastic barrels. <br /><br /> -- Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:27 pm -- <br /><br /> ////////////////////

Today I got a call from a fellow who has bought rabbits from me this
spring. I want to say 7 total. Anyways, he has a NZ doe who just
had 12 babies for him. One of the does I sold him.
I have to wait till tomorrow to ask him more questions, but the
bottom line here is, it keeps going back to the pellets I am feeding.
The biggest litters I have been able to get are like 9 and 10, and
that is current ones and from 2 mixed does.
My pure callis are giving me small litters and slow weight gain.
I have to do more research on this Bunny 16 made by Kent.
I am going to have to make a switch, somehow.

Wow! This is concerning. We feed Kent as do a lot of show and breeding people in our county. In fact, over a year ago we switched from Manna Pro to Kent at the advice of our ML breeder. I can't say that I've ever had a problem. Our pellets always look great and smell great and our rabbits seem to like it. They're always quite happy to be fed.

That being said, if this seems to be an ongoing problem with multiple people, I'm definitely going to have to pay very close attention. I'm so sorry about what you all are dealing with! What a nightmare.

I am reading on this page, http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-health-feeding/date-code-bags/
how to read the batch number.

A1194 on the 3 bags I have that just finished up.
So according to the above url info,
day 119 for yr 2014 , So April 29

A1574 the 4 bags I bought today. So June 6, 2014 batch made.

I buy 4 bags every 2 weeks. So the A1194 batch ,
I only bought 2 weeks ago.

-- Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:59 pm --

//////////////

I am still learning about this subject. I called a different feed
store and got to talk to a very knowlegable lady about feeds.
I have come to conclusion I did not know the product,
I have been feeding. No one at the feed store ever explained
all the products available. And they know I have a good number
of rabbits.

http://blueseal.com/product/?id=113
"Bunny 16 is specifically recommended for maintenance of pet rabbits, herd bucks, and dry does. It may also be fed to performance animals in situations where little to no long-form fiber (hay) is being fed."
http://blueseal.com/files/feeding-and-m ... t_Page.pdf

So it would appear that I probably should be feeding something
with 17 or 18 % protein to the does, to help me get bigger litters and
faster kit growth.

I thought I was feeding a general pellet that would work for the whole herd. I guess not.

I do not know what kind of hay I am feeding. I know it is second
cutting and the rabbits eat lots of hay. The lady suggested timothy
Not alfafa because most pellets have that in them already.

TwoAcreDream":1slvjqmz said:

So it would appear that I probably should be feeding something with 17 or 18 % protein to the does, to help me get bigger litters and faster kit growth.

Click to expand...

It really seems to depend on the rabbits. Some herds do just fine on 16% for everybunny, while others need some extra protein. Some have maintained herds -- even showing -- on 12% horse feed. I tried 14% horse feed, and was not satisfied with the results.

TwoAcreDream":1slvjqmz said:

I do not know what kind of hay I am feeding. I know it is second
cutting and the rabbits eat lots of hay. The lady suggested timothy
Not alfafa because most pellets have that in them already.

Click to expand...

I don't know about where you live, but for me, feeding alfalfa is like feeding sterling silver, and timothy is like gold. Both are expensive, with timothy being astronomical.

Rabbits can eat any horse hay that has been stored out of the weather. If it's been rained on, it's no good for rabbits. But Bermuda, Bahia, Coastal (a type of Bermuda), Alicia (another Bermuda), Orchard, etc. are all fine for rabbits. Depending on whether you can get a bale from a local farmer or rural feed store, or from a suburban feed store, you can pay anywhere from $4 - $15 per square bale.

It is good to get hay that is still somewhat green, as it still has more of its nutrients intact and rabbits seem to enjoy it more, but hay nutrients aren't as important when using pellets, because they're getting everything they need in the pellets. Technically, you don't even need they hay, but most of us feed it anyway. It helps keep things moving through the gut, and rabbits just like chewing hay.

I have one farmer not to far from me that I can get really nice
quality hay from. $ 5 a bale. My son works part time for a another
farmer and can get me hay at his cost.
The rabbits and I both prefer the second cutting. What stuff falls
on the floor gets racked up and then took out to the chicken yard.

Years ago, when I had the rabbits for a 10 year period, we worked
on a dairy farm. If I ran out of rabbit grain, the bunnies got cow
grain for a meal or two, until I could get to town for their regular
grain.They also got lots of hay.

My rabbits are all in good condition. I am just looking at things
now from all different angles. I want to continue on and maintain
with the numbers I have now. I guess it's called the tweaking
stage

My apologies LFG...I'll get that batch number for you today....
I've been swamped with all the goings-on around the rabbitry.

Country Acres is 18% protein. It is the very cheapest feed available for me
at the present time. I went off of Kent feed just about this time last year
because of price hikes. I didn't "like" the tag ingredients on C/A, but I could
live with it.

When I went back to Kent....I had to clean every single bag because of the
excessive fines. It got old..........QUICK!! I raised a ruckus with my feed
dealer over it and the quality became a "little" better. But, I noticed that
the bags ripped very easy if they weren't handled just so-so. Again, it goes
back to quality control......and ways to reduce costs. Maybe they got a
better price from another bag manufacturer? Who knows...all I knew was
that it made my job a little more difficult. Then March, 2014 rolled around
and all Heck broke loose.

A quick change back to C/A and that was that. I also noted that the herd
likes the old rough Brome hay over the better grades available. They'll
have feed in their feeders and "beg" for hay. It's rougher than a cob, but
they like it. Now, I'm beginning to grow the fodder and it helps.

grumpy.

I have said this before, [and I do hold on to prejudice against feed companies] when I have any trouble in the rabbitry I first look at the feed. -- for me, 9 times out of 10 the trouble started with the feed. It is not always the feed manufacturer who caused the problem , it is sometimes the retail outlet who stored it too long, or did not rotate the stock, or it was stored in high humidity, and caused a mold issue. But usually all trouble is traced back to a feed problem.
I will say this ,-in indoor rabbitries, it is just as important to look at the possibility of ammonia build up from urine, causing respiratory trouble , as it is to look at feed.

This is an older post. I'm just curious how people are currently feeling about the Kent feed.
I have been feeding my rabbits Producers Pride from Tractor Supply (around $12 for 50 lb bag) and had been pleased with it. I've had no issues & healthy rabbits. However, in going to buy the new rabbits I'm getting multiple breeders are all using Kent and it was suggested over Producers Pride.
I figured it must be better and was planning to switch over to Kent as I found it available very close by to me.
The cost is around $11-12 for a 25 lb bag so it's nearly double the price of what I've been paying.
I'm willing to pay that if it is better feed and was planning to. Coming across this thread made me wonder though.
Love to hear current feedback on the product or if anyone knows how the two feeds I'm talking compare.

Thank you!!