Pulling hair - findings

So, I had a doe who at almost a year old was pulling hair. Not nest building, but making little piles of the stuff in odd places...like her food bowl. She had never been bred.
I have had does with false pregnancies before, and do not suspect it to be the case with this doe.

Many people suggested breeding her as a way to regulate hormones.

Does was bred at almost a year old. Raised a litter. Nursed the kits until 10 weeks old.
Litter is currently 11 weeks.
I separated the kits just a few days ago due to mounting behavior from the doe. I observed it once and removed all kits that day.

The doe has already returned to pulling hair. She did not build a nest.
No mounting behavior was never observed from any kit.
I do not believe she is pregnant, but she is in a flat bottomed and straw covered pen (an inside rabbit), so if by any chance she managed to get pregnant, she has plenty of nesting site options.


So far, what I believe I'm seeing is that breeding her did not do anything to regulate her hormones or stop that hair pulling habit.

Any other suggestions?

Zass":1bejhcm9 said:

Any other suggestions?

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Keep her bred. :twisted:

MamaSheepdog":3a36grb7 said:

Zass":3a36grb7 said:

Any other suggestions?

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Keep her bred. :twisted:

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I put my deposit on a velveteen buck. He's coming from the current COD holder for the breed, and should correct a lot of the weak points I have.

She says he should be very suitable as a herd sire. I believe she told me that she's submitting her own standard this year too, and if that's the case, than I'm sure she wouldn't sell me a herd sire that wouldn't meet the new standards.
I think I'm going to have a very good reason to keep her bred!

Besides, she was a GREAT first time mother.

Sounds like a great plan to me.

Lol. I had a mean, doe that was nasty if she wasn't bred, so that's what I did.

Ummm... do you really want to be putting does (or bucks who can father does) out there that are neurotic when not pregnant? That's not exactly a selling point for people looking for a bunny.

Just my 2 cents :shrug:

Dood":25lmnql5 said:

Ummm... do you really want to be putting does (or bucks who can father does) out there that are neurotic when not pregnant? That's not exactly a selling point for people looking for a bunny.

Just my 2 cents :shrug:

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It is a good point. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I don't really intend on putting anything at all out there until I can get them to where I want them.

I want v-lops that are consistently showable, good type, better foot fur, the same fantastic personalities, astrex genes and possible splits rooted out. Something the local 4-H kids can be proud of having and showing.

I do believe this breed will be wonderful with some work, and that breeders who are OK with heavy culling are what they need most.

Honestly though, Mucky isn't neurotic in any way except for the shoulder fur issue.
She's still easily the best tempered rabbit I've ever met. She's the doe who never stops licking me and actually begs to be picked up. Never gets moody.

Compared to the way-too-frequently-accepted aggression and fear that I see in other breeds (or just plain UNFRIENDLY does) I'll work with the hair pulling for now. It's less frustrating.

I really have no idea if has a genetic component or it's just a personal behavioral issue.
I will make sure to report it to everyone on here if any future rabbits from her lines show the same tendency. (Thus suggesting genetics)

Dood":21kw6zze said:

Ummm... do you really want to be putting does (or bucks who can father does) out there that are neurotic when not pregnant? That's not exactly a selling point for people looking for a bunny.

Just my 2 cents :shrug:

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i think it's just a meat bun. I'm pretty sure Zass shares our philosophy on testy buns :dinner: :dinner: :dinner:

skysthelimit":2206bda5 said:

Dood":2206bda5 said:

Ummm... do you really want to be putting does (or bucks who can father does) out there that are neurotic when not pregnant? That's not exactly a selling point for people looking for a bunny.

Just my 2 cents :shrug:

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i think it's just a meat bun. I'm pretty sure Zass shares our philosophy on testy buns :dinner: :dinner: :dinner:

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I do, but it's actually my senior velveteen doe who has the fur problem. I've totally fallen for their personalities and decided I want to work with them.

The breed has many problems, they do need help. It's just a coincidence that "helping the breed" and "filling my freezer" amount to the same thing. :dinner:

At least they aren't crazy like my SF were!!!

New and rare breeds you are left to work out the kinks yourself... Can't just go and get another one.

skysthelimit":20zj90ra said:

New and rare breeds you are left to work out the kinks yourself... Can't just go and get another one.

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I'm under the impression that pretty much everyone's stock will have something that will bother me. (like diabetes, or bad personalities)
I have identified what I'd like to change, and am bringing in a herd sire who should help with physical characteristics. Hopefully, he doesn't bring too much more genetic baggage!

It will be up to me to cull for size, type, mothering, behavioral or hormonal problems, curl genes, possible split carriers, metabolic issues (possibly linked to the curl genes), overall heath, and who knows what else.

To start though, I need to produce a lot more rabbits so I have enough to be choosy with.

Zass":xk0e77sd said:

To start though, I need to produce a lot more rabbits so I have enough to be choosy with.

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Spoken like a true Rabbitosis sufferer!

:lol: Part of the problem with fancy pet breeds is that they are taken up and sold by a lot of people(and kids) who just think they look cute and intend to sell everything they produce.

I've even seen breeders bragging about finding a home for every. single. rabbit.
For some that may be fine, but it amounts to no culling whatsoever. :?
There is a lot of junk for a would-be-breeder to sort out.

And you know, I used to insist that I'd NEVER ever want to raise one of those little cutsie breeds! The fact that many are known for having neurotic temperaments was an oft stated reason.

But...you know...one thing has led to another...


Is there a smiley for eating crow?

Or so hard to find sold and bred by an unsuspecting person.

But given your experience with SF, I'd trust you know better

skysthelimit":3nyc3r9p said:

Or so hard to find sold and bred by an unsuspecting person.

But given your experience with SF, I'd trust you know better

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What I learned with SF is to be wary of "show only" breeders when it comes to meat rabbits, or temperaments in general!


Truth is, people from drastically different parts on the country, and people in Canada were having similar troubles with the breed. I realized it wasn't just me.
Those show breeders were probably working with and selling the best of what they had.
It's just not what I want in a rabbit, and I wasn't enjoying them enough to keep working with em.
Not when I just liked the personalities of my mixed breed so much more, and they are every bit as good for meat and pelts, and a whole lot better at mothering.

Bit by bit, the mutts earned the cage space.

and I don't have to ever worry about selling any. Works out better for me

Someone told me long ago, be wary of someone raising rabbit who doesn't eat rabbit (or in my case) can't butcher their own culls. If they can't stand the word cull, can't see them as meat, needs to sell every last kit, run away (if you plan to raise meat or even show).

skysthelimit":8yoph9jn said:

Someone told me long ago, be wary of someone raising rabbit who doesn't eat rabbit (or in my case) can't butcher their own culls. If they can't stand the word cull, can't see them as meat, needs to sell every last kit, run away (if you plan to raise meat or even show).

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I think that is good advise :yeahthat:

Zass":osftm3bs said:

Part of the problem with fancy pet breeds is that they are taken up and sold by a lot of people(and kids) who just think they look cute and intend to sell everything they produce. [qoute/]

No culling creates a lot of junk, I am trying to decide how I will cull, if there are some that aren't good for pet, brood or show. Guess just tell my brother he can finally have a chance to eat rabbit lol.

[qoute]There is a lot of junk for a would-be-breeder to sort out.[/qoute]

I agree.

And you know, I used to insist that I'd NEVER ever want to raise one of those little cutsie breeds! The fact that many are known for having neurotic temperaments was an oft stated reason.

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I agree, I wanted to go into ND's but they are so popular, expensive, produce peanuts (not to mention over 20 confusing colors!) and are known for bad temperaments. I wanted to go into something small, so I decided Polish because most don't have the dwarfing gene (at least I am pretty sure mine don't) and they have only 6 colors.

I don't believe there will be too many v-lop breeders who will use the term "cull" right now.

The main market for them is pet and pet breeders, by my guess, since the average price I've seen is $100 for pedigreed stock, and most rabbits that I've seen at those prices still aren't even making minimum show requirements. :roll: (I'm bringing in a buck with 17 and 3/4 inch ear span to correct the shorter ears mine have. and a better shoulder and body type)

Honestly, My senoir doe is the best housepet rabbit I've ever met. Absolutely charming, attention loving, playful, sweet and friendly. Begs to be picked up. Her kits have all acted just like her. Which has begun to totally win me over.
These things were born to cuddle and seem to love everyone. With their rex coats they are easy to keep and a delight to touch, and they love being petted and stroked. They have these big ears and LOVE to have them fondled. They are smallish and yet non-dwarf. They don't have skull and teeth problems (that I know of) since they don't have the boxy heads of other lops. Their ears are thicker and shorter than an E-lops, making them easier to care for.
I would say that this breed is a great inside or family pet choice.
Perfectly suited to their main market.

From a housepet owners perspective, I'd consider re-homing (AKA ditching) a rabbit if it became moody, hormonal, aggressive, territorial, or just plain unfriendly post puberty.
But not one that just pulled a little hair upon occasion.

Of course, I wouldn't re-home a problem animal, because I'm not just a pet owner. I raise meat animals too, and feel responsible for everything that leaves my property. Problem animals are culled here.

A show breeder would probably prefer all the "normal doe" traits mentioned above VS the hair pulling, for obvious reasons. How could you show a rabbit that always looked she had just had a litter? :?

Now, I did mention that I'd like to work mine towards having higher quality show traits, and that means keeping in mind what show breeders require from their animals too.
Dood's totally right, I couldn't sell a potentially show quality doe if she might start tearing her hair out post puberty.
Absolutely charming little pet rabbits, but they need A LOT of work to make into something people will be able to show.

The potential splits are actually more worrisome to me, because I don't dare sell or pet-home a rabbit if I can't reliably tell it's gender by 12 weeks

Well, with all those problems and my general disinterest in the pet market, why would I even want to mess with them?

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The SF looked good when I read about them online (and when I ran my hands through their lovely plush coats),
but their temperaments made me feel bad when I handled them. Most didn't bite and were easy to handle...but it was clear they HATED everything about it. After a few years, I found my enthusiasm for them had dwindled, and the better tempered meat mutts simply more enjoyable to care for.

The velveteens are the opposite of the SF. They aren't supposed to be anything special, and they are fancy, and silly and have a lot of issues.
It was just whim that had me bring one home. But, when I think about which rabbits make me happiest at the end of each day, it's always the velveteens.

wow , those are adorable ...thanks for the pic's