More bunny problems :(

As some of you may know - my DD's buck "Smudge" died a couple of weeks ago - unexpectedly, wasn't old, no illness, no obvious signs of cause of death.

He was followed, earlier this week, by a little doe that DD had given me name Chocolate. Same thing - except she had been a little thin, but she was feeding a litter so I wasn't overly worried - just got there and found her dead. Luckily the babies were old enough to cope without her.

Then this morning, we found Douglas dead. He was the very very tame little buck that DD had decided to keep to try to take Smudge's place. The only difference with him was that he had been partially eaten by a rat when we found him this morning.

As a result, I have no way of knowing whether he died in the same way as the other two and the rat attack came afterwards, or whether he was attacked by rats and that is what killed him.

But, what on earth is going on. To lose 2, possibly 3, bunnies with no obviouis cause, signs of illness? What am I missing? I am staring to worry now

TIA

hoggie

Hoggie, I'm so sorry you and your DD are going through this.

I think it would take a very bad rat problem for them to get bold enough to attack and kill an adult rabbit. Not impossible, but I would be surprised if they killed Douglas. (Kits, yes, they will take them for sure, so please be careful.) They were very quick to take advantage of the situation, though, and that makes me think that your rat problem is likely quite bad. I think you you need to mount a full-scale war with traps and poison. It is possible that the rats are carrying something that the rabbits are susceptible to.

Have you added any new rabbits to your rabbitry in the past couple of months? Sometimes a rabbit that is healthy itself will bring with it a dormant problem... and if your rabbits lack immunity to it, they may succumb. Did you open up any of the dead rabbits to see if you could spot a problem? Is sending one out for a necropsy a possibility? Sudden deaths are not uncommon in rabbits. The only adult rabbit deaths I have had in my rabbitry have been of that type. But to lose three in a row like that is scary. I wish I had an answer for you.

that is scary ...

I have had a couple of sudden rabbit deaths over the many years of working with rabbits - one absolutely NOTHING showed .. diagnosis - heart attack (more comment than previously believed apparently) then I had three in a row - suspicion was a particularly virulent form of pasturella - one rabbit had some discharge around nostrils after death - these three died within a week of each other - every other rabbit was fine afterwards ...

one likely block or gi statis - back before I knew the signs and how good rabbits are at hiding things ..

hang in there

I'm sorry, Hoggie! I hope you don't lose any more, and that you get to the bottom of it soon!

I would go to war with rats!
Rabbits are known to be susceptible to sudden death heart attacks when frightened.
Rats could be the cause especially since you know one was actually attacked.
It may just have taken awhile for the rat/rats to get bold enough to physically attack and at first they just where scaring the heck out of the buns.

The prob will most likely escalate if even one rat if around as soon more will come.

Meanwhile keep a small light on all night long. That will help rabbits with not dying of fright as easily.
It will also slow down the rats till you can get defenses up.
I keep a nightlight on 24/7 just in case something comes in the rabbitry and scares the buns.

The outside buns, I have a light in my window that shines to the outside where the buns are.
I have had coons and skunks come around but no losses to fright as I did experience back when my buns outside where in the dark.
My roo thats lives outside is also my alarm bird and with the help of the light he see's danger before it gets to close and screams. We intercepted several coons and skunks without losing any thing, except some sleep, but worth the lack of zzz's.


Rats can be hard to get. They learn not to touch poison baits, avoid traps, etc.
After you get a few rats change traps around and change baits.

Hi folks - thanks

I "think" that maybe Douglas was "GI stasis" looking back. I suddenly had a flashback yesterday to DD mucking out the hutches and saying "Douglas doesn't need doing, I can't see any poo" I t didn't ring any alarm bells at the time, but now looking back, I wonder......

Maggie, yes, the rats were very quick to get into Douglas's hutch. The hutches that have the babies in have tiny tiny mesh that rats couldn't get through. But the two hutches the boys are in, have a little damage to the mesh where they play with it. Just one hole big enough to get through, but the managed it

Brody - the Pasteurella? Were there no symptoms beforehand? Or just the deaths?

Miss M - thank you

R. Pines - rats!! I hate the things. We do suffer quite badly with them. The barn is fairly close to our local dump, and the rats seem to make their way across the fields to me - i think via the farm. I do put bait down for them, although I don't like to leave it down for too long unless I know we actually have them around. I discovered a couple of years ago, that the rat bait we use is specially designed for the rats not to get used to it. I was speaking to a scientist at the company and she explained that rats, if they eat bait and it makes them feel ill, will take the other rats to it and show them not to eat it - so then the other rats won't touch the bait. This bait is designed to not affect them for a couple of days, so they don't know what it is that is making them ill. Clever stuff I also normally have two barn cats who, although I never see them take a rat, seem to do a pretty good job of keeping the rats down. But one is at home being nursed after being at death's door for a three or four weeks, and the other has kittens and is a little preoccupied - so that may be a factor in all this. But I WILL put a bait box down under the hutches and see what comes along.

I did wonder about fright when Smudge died, except that the whole hutch looked so calm - he hadn't been running around or anything?

I have four geese who patrol the yard for me - but I don't know if they would make any noise about a rat.

Thanks again all - I just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best I guess.

hoggie

the no poop thing is exactly what happened with the dude so long ago - the reason I think he was stasis or block too .. and I only realized after he was dead when I went to clean his litter box ... how long ago did I clean it? I don't recall doing it yesterday? you mean he hasn't pooped in over a day? a little research and my steep learning curve started

the pasturella had NO signs at all .. one rabbit got stressed (by a cat) seemed fine then within 36 hours two were dead, ate drank, peed and pooped in the meantime. I had a long chat with my exotic vet and he said he believes there are many strains of pasturella - one being a very virulent fatal strain that he suspects were provoked by the stress