Proposed Changes to Animal Welfare Act/APHIS/USDA

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Hmm...did not think about that....how about "buyers must be given the opportunity to SEE the animal in person, at a mutually agreed upon location, before the completion of the sale to verify the health status of the animal."

Good wording there.
 
Kyle@theHeathertoft":3jczcti4 said:
Hmm...did not think about that....how about "buyers must be given the opportunity to SEE the animal in person, at a mutually agreed upon location, before the completion of the sale to verify the health status of the animal."

Good wording there.

How about "Buyers or their designated representative" - that way if an animal is going to be shipped by air, or transported across country in some way which makes returning it cost prohibitive, you can designate a Veterinarian or other trusted individual to assess the health of the animal for you.
 
MamaSheepdog":3iymncy7 said:
Kyle@theHeathertoft":3iymncy7 said:
Hmm...did not think about that....how about "buyers must be given the opportunity to SEE the animal in person, at a mutually agreed upon location, before the completion of the sale to verify the health status of the animal."

Good wording there.

How about "Buyers or their designated representative" - that way if an animal is going to be shipped by air, or transported across country in some way which makes returning it cost prohibitive, you can designate a Veterinarian or other trusted individual to assess the health of the animal for you.
I like this! That still allows for rabbit railway situations.
 
OneAcreFarm":3df2hzjm said:
tailwagging":3df2hzjm said:
toastedoat37":3df2hzjm said:
there are already rules and regulations having to do with selling pets you raise if its more than five hundred dollars a year , federal ,state and city rules , that people dont follow , license your supposed to have depending on where you live.People dont follow them.And since we have the internet , there are thousands of people that operate businesses without licenses they are supposed to have .

$500.00 is ONLY if you sell to a middle man!! NOT the final buyer.

Actually, it CAN be the final buyer, if that final buyer is a lab or any type of exhibition, like a petting zoo. One of the decent changes that has been proposed, is to remove the $500 limit if you meet the "retail pet store" standard as laid out in the proposed changes, which is basically that your buyers come to your place of business, ie. home/farm, to purchase the rabbits. What I would like to see is the wording clarified to state, "buyers must meet sellers face to face, at a place mutually agreed upon, to complete the sale."

I was answering to a quote about selling PET rabbits not labs rabbits. but yes a usda exhibitor CAN buy from pet breeder and the breeder does not have to be USDA unless the exhibitor is going to resell them, then they are dealers and the breeder must be USDA.

you might be right I'll go check

yes you are right


(ii) Any person who sells or negotiates the sale or purchase of any animal
except wild or exotic animals, dogs, or cats, and who derives no more than $500
gross income from the sale of such animals to a research facility, an exhibitor,
a dealer, or a pet store during any calendar year and is not otherwise required
to obtain a license;
 
Random Rabbit":324frofx said:
However... a designated representative... will then be considered a "Broker" and thus fall under the regulations...

*sigh* !!!

Oh. :? Sheesh.
 
Random Rabbit":177h7860 said:
However... a designated representative... will then be considered a "Broker" and thus fall under the regulations...

*sigh* !!!

They would only be considered a "Broker" if THEY paid the seller and then I paid them. If my payment is made directly to the seller, then they are merely my "representative".
 
OneAcreFarm":3ajzxnqm said:
They would only be considered a "Broker" if THEY paid the seller and then I paid them. If my payment is made directly to the seller, then they are merely my "representative".

Oh! :p Super!

LOL...
 
Tailwagging,,,,,they are just talking about federal law, i was including state and city also. Not ever state is the same , but at least some of them have retail sales tax. If you breed pets to sell retail, you are a business, required to get a tax id number from the state, and charge retail sales tax at the rate of what ever city you are selling it in. Part of the reason for the update on federal law is because people ignore the laws that we already have. In my state you would legaly need to register with the state, and then have a business license for your city. Then lets say i met the person in city fifty miles away where i sold them the rabbit. I would then be doing business in yet another city, I would be required to get a business license for that city alsochIt sucks ,but thats the way it is. If you physicaly go to another city to do business, you then need that citys business license.

Also i think most of you are missing the whole thing about the inspections,,its not just about inspecting the one animal you are buying,,its about inspecting all thier animals to see if there is illness where the one you are buying came from.If the purchaser isnt allowed to do that, then the usda will be doing it. ITs a good thing for the buyer, a pain in the ass for the seller.

But if the animals are Livestock, differnt set of rules.
 
And i'm here to say ... as a BUYER it is a royal pain for me. I rarely have the time and extra $$ to be able to travel Across the country to "inspect" a sellers premises. I do my research... i check references and Make My Own Decision if i am willing to take a chance on a particular critter.

I do Not need a govt entity to hold my widdle hand and make it all better should things not work out perfectly.
 
The beauty of a free market society is that if someone consistently sells an inferior product, they will not be in business for long... unless there are enough fools out there that will buy animals from a bad situation to "save" them- in which case, they shouldn't moan about the costs involved to bring those animals back to good health. Conversely, those that offer value for your money will do well.

I abhor the "nanny-state mentality". It is our responsibility to make wise choices, not delegate them to the government. Especially when the government fails miserably at keeping us "safe" in any case.
 
toastedoat37":1eryag2y said:
If the purchaser isnt allowed to do that, then the usda will be doing it. ITs a good thing for the buyer, a pain in the ass for the seller.
WRONG!! As with everything else, "let the buyer beware". Quit begging your nanny government to do your due diligence for you!!

But if the animals are Livestock, differnt set of rules.
Guess again!! When are you going to understand that THE COURTS WILL APPLY PET RULES TO LIVESTOCK?!?!?!?! In fact, they've ALREADY been doing it!!

Random Rabbit":1eryag2y said:
And i'm here to say ... as a BUYER it is a royal pain for me. I rarely have the time and extra $$ to be able to travel Across the country to "inspect" a sellers premises. I do my research... i check references and Make My Own Decision if i am willing to take a chance on a particular critter.

I do Not need a govt entity to hold my widdle hand and make it all better should things not work out perfectly.
AMEN!!
 
The beauty of a free market society is that if someone consistently sells an inferior product, they will not be in business for long... unless there are enough fools out there that will buy animals from a bad situation to "save" them- in which case, they shouldn't moan about the costs involved to bring those animals back to good health. Conversely, those that offer value for your money will do well.

I abhor the "nanny-state mentality". It is our responsibility to make wise choices, not delegate them to the government. Especially when the government fails miserably at keeping us "safe" in any case.

COULDN'T. AGREE. MORE. :)
 
MamaSheepdog":24mvdddy said:
The beauty of a free market society is that if someone consistently sells an inferior product, they will not be in business for long... unless there are enough fools out there that will buy animals from a bad situation to "save" them- in which case, they shouldn't moan about the costs involved to bring those animals back to good health. Conversely, those that offer value for your money will do well.

I abhor the "nanny-state mentality". It is our responsibility to make wise choices, not delegate them to the government. Especially when the government fails miserably at keeping us "safe" in any case.

Random Rabbit":24mvdddy said:
And i'm here to say ... as a BUYER it is a royal pain for me. I rarely have the time and extra $$ to be able to travel Across the country to "inspect" a sellers premises. I do my research... i check references and Make My Own Decision if i am willing to take a chance on a particular critter.

I do Not need a govt entity to hold my widdle hand and make it all better should things not work out perfectly.

BRAVO!!!

This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had with a lady in my hometown. She owns and runs the town news rag, and every Thursday publishes a column which advocates expanding every social program known to mankind. She would think nothing of shredding the country's military budget to fund it, either, but here is the funny part: Shortly after I retired from the USAF 4.5 years ago, I dropped into the newspaper office, and get this, she began telling me how she thinks "every young man should have to serve a term in the military right after they graduate high school." The rationale was that the young men in our society need to learn responsibility in the most desparate way, and what better way to do it than to force them into service and get barked at for a few years every time they fail to make their beds or fold their drawers?

While everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions, the following questions pretty much set that stance on its ears:

1-How are we going to fund clothing, housing, feeding, training, providing medical and dental care, educational benefits, paying, and building facilities for these tens of thousands of young men every year when they graduate high school, while at the same time funding replacing our already outdated and decrepit equipment?

2-Since when was it the job of a drill sergeant, training instructor, drill instructor, etc. to undo in 8-13 short weeks what a young man's parents failed to do in 18 years?

You folks are hammering on some obvious points which one can arrive at when and ONLY when they take up responsibility for themselves and quit expecting the government to be their end all/be all. The nanny state mentality which pervades our society is where the problem lies. Want proof of it? Go back and research the crowd which makes up all the "Occupy _______" rallies today. They aren't looking for help, just a handout. The day we get it through the thick heads of our own people to quit expecting the government to do everything for them and start fending for themselves, alot of these problems will take care of themselves.
 
Ok, so the POINT of this post was not for all of us to sit around and be "arm chair quarterbacks"....get your butts in gear and GO COMMENT ON THE SITE instead of preaching to the choir!!!! LOL Seriously, they are only taking comments until July 16th...then they will review the comments and then review the changes and THEN we will see what happens. But it will stay EXACTLY the SAME if we don't get out there and let our voices be heard!

http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=APHIS-2011-0003-0001
 
Making the wrong comments like yall are doing in here will hurt ya more than help ya,,,,,,if the rabbit business is not self regulating,,,,the usda will step in,,,it cant be regulating if everyones rabbitry is private,,,,,why the hell do you all want to be so secretive about your rabbits?

It doesnt matter if you raise meat, or pets or show animals, if your selling and not allowing your customer to come see your operation if they want to , somethings wrong, if you want your rabbitry private, dont sell rabbits.

If you want to operate a business , you need to follow the rules just like any other business.

__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:24 pm __________

mama,, the rabbitry being private along with the internet will allow people to keep selling sick rabbits, if the rabbitry isnt private , word can get around and put those people out of business,,,,thats what this whole thing is about.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:27 pm __________<br /><br />I got a question, how many of you that sell rabbits are willing to write out a bill of sale?
 
I'm not ashamed in the least of my rabbitry. Quite the opposite. I have nice, healthy animals in some really ludicrously large enclosures, and soon I'll be setting up a whole new, much nicer block of hanging cages for my French Angoras.

And I do NOT, repeat, NOT!!! want people in my rabbitry. I don't like people I don't know or trust in my space. What if they've just come from some kind of vile cesspool and pet my stock? How many diseases could unwashed hands transmit??? Why should I be FORCED to let someone into my VERY private property to inspect my setup? If they aren't comfortable buying from someone who won't have them in their facility, then they can buy from someone else.

"Buyer beware." I got burned last year on a pair of rabbits. I don't blame the people who burned me, though I sure won't buy from them again...and I have nobody but myself to blame, so I deal with the loss and move on. :p It happens, and it isn't the government's job to save me from making my own mistakes.

We need less regulating, NOT MORE.
 
People keep saying,,,buyer beware,,,,,thats right ,and a responsible buyer will find out where the animal they are buying came from,,,,,,,and when they cant,,,,they will complain and thats when the government who work for the people will step in to do what they cant do.,,,,,NO ONE FORCES ANYONE TO GO IN THE PET BUSINESS OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS.
 
toasted, you're hopeless. You want pet rabbit sellers put out business SO BADLY that you will sell your soul to the devil (as well as sell out the rest of us).

toastedoat37":30pazn47 said:
It doesnt matter if you raise meat, or pets or show animals, if your selling and not allowing your customer to come see your operation if they want to , somethings wrong, if you want your rabbitry private, dont sell rabbits.
You have NO clue, and I'm guessing you will never get one. It's obvious (to everyone else here, at least) that NO ONE agrees with you and never will agree with you. Just stop.
 
You have NO clue, and I'm guessing you will never get one. It's obvious (to everyone else here, at least) that NO ONE agrees with you and never will agree with you. Just stop.

Figured that needed possible repeating. :)

People keep saying,,,buyer beware,,,,,thats right ,and a responsible buyer will find out where the animal they are buying came from,,,,,,,and when they cant,,,,they will complain and thats when the government who work for the people will step in to do what they cant do.,,,,,NO ONE FORCES ANYONE TO GO IN THE PET BUSINESS OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS.

...................buisness? I am a rabbit HOBBYIST, not a buisness. :p Not everyone who breeds or sells is running a buisness.

Let me test my understanding.

Person A wants to buy a rabbit from Person B. Person B does not allow people into their rabbitry- which is their choice since it is THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY. Person A doesn't want to buy from someone if they can't inspect the facility, so...they want the government to FORCIBLY INSPECT Person B's property????????????

How about...if Person A really has a problem with not being allowed in Person B's rabbitry, they just DON'T BUY FROM THAT PERSON???? :shock:

I literally cannot follow your logic as it has so many holes in it.

Like I said before, I do not like people I don't know and trust in my rabbitry. I keep my rabbits in my basement, which means that if I want to let a buyer see my facility they have to ENTER MY HOUSE. That is NOT going to happen for a MULTITUDE of reasons...and if they have a problem with it, they can buy rabbits elsewhere, because I am in rabbits for my own reasons, not as a buisness venture.
 
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