Need help developing my natural feeding amounts/etc.

I just found out that I can get pure alfalfa hay, in excellent shape, from my neighbor. As much as I want. I have 3 bales of it now...and...in all the years I had horses, I've NEVER seen hay of this quality. call me gobsmacked.

anyway. THAT solves my problem of a protein source for the natural feeding which I want to get going with them.

but..now I'm kind of lost. I can buy oats, wheat (PROBABLY both hard red and soft), soybeans (expressed), um...I think I can get barley from my grain mill....I can always ask him to order some in for me..or go to the guys that brew...

corn, of course, but ...

so. what kind of mix? what else should I look for if anything? I know salt...a salt lick sort of thing? This is pretty exciting, if you ask me

Do I feed some grass hay as well as alfalfa? um....golly..so many questions and I could screw them up SO easily....

as to WHY I want to go with grains...I don't like that I can't be certain what's in the pellets. I'm going to be having chickens as well as rabbits, so I can just use my grains for them, tooo (that's how I feed chickens...not on pellets or mash usually)...and I know what they're getting.

Transitioning your rabbits to a natural diet will not be difficult, Ann... You are more than halfway there already. I take it you still have some pellets on hand, so just start mixing in the grain and keeping the quantity fed about the same. Barley and wheat have similar nutrients so you can go with whichever is cheaper in your area. Barley is good for rabbits but not the best for chickens. So if the prices are similar you might want to go with just wheat. Hard wheat has more protein than soft wheat. Oats are good too. Corn... optional, I'd say. Given the problems with the moulds and the genetic modifications... not sure I'd want to feed it again to my critters. Of course, if you are growing your own, that might be different.

BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds for our new members) or peas (NOT BEANS!)can also boost protein levels. BOSS can be fed shell and all. Peas can be cracked to make them easier for the rabbits to eat or can be soaked or sprouted. These are optional extras, not necessities.

Please note that those fancy rex rabbits in France are apparently being fed alfalfa hay and a grain mix. Period.

Soybeans are a good source of protein but must be cooked... the roasted ones are more palatable than steamed. Soybeans can be hard for rabbits to digest if large quantities are fed (according to Ann Kanable's book) so go easy with them if you decide to include them. They can also be fed to chickens. If you van get that lovely alfalfa hay in quantity, you may not need soybeans at all. BTW, I have learned that chickens will eat alfalfa hay too... just toss a flake into their coop and they will scratch and peck at it until only the hard stems are left.

Feeding some grass hay free choice is fine... Rabbits know when they need extra fibre and will balance their grass vs. alfalfa intake on their own, as long as they have ample supplies of both. Grass hay is particularly good for young rabbits and will help them through the tricky weaning period when there is a danger of enteritis brought on by the change from milk to plant matter. I have never lost a fryer to weaning enteritis. (Go away, Murphy! Scram!)

Salt is a good idea. Mine have only been getting it sporadically but I think they should have it available constantly. A mineral salt would likely be even better. If you want to go organic, something like Redmond salts should be a good choice. I believe the organic feed company here in Ontario, Homestead Organics, uses it in their rabbit feed, so it must be okay for rabbits.

http://users.xplornet.com/~tmanley/

The ingredients list gives us a basic guide to a good mix.

Rabbit Feed 15% Protein

A grower ration for rabbits containing wheat, oats, barley, roasted soybeans, flax
meal, peas, minerals and salt. Farmers should provide their own forage or purchase
alfalfa pellets.

Please note they are referring to alfalfa pellets, not "complete" rabbit pellets.

Hope this answers some of your questions... but feel free to ask more. It helps me to review this information from time to time so I can tweak my own feeding program.

oh goodness...just found out that there's a HIGH possibility that our neighbor, who grows a few acres of wheat FOR THE STRAW will sell us the grain at cost. I'm thinking we could offer to buy the seed, they do the work, they take the straw, we get the wheat.

have to see what works out. Barley is a possibility, too.

so...the Wheat I've been feeding a couple days now is going over really well. I have to keep track of prices tho. Once I can get everything set up out at the farm, this will go a LOT easier. The feedmill guy will put together whatever I need in a grain mix. I'm thinking a basic wheat/oats by the ton to feed the chickens, rabbits, (and hopefully piggies), then bag of barley for bunnies, bag of cracked corn for chickens, and soybeans for everyone. BOSS as side dressing for buns.

Alfalfa for bunnies all year, winter for chickens. Timothy for the buns.

Dang. I'm almost going to be organized. almost....

btw, the wheat he brought home is NOT treated. heh. It's actually organic...just not CERTIFIED organic so they don't put the word on the tags.

That's wonderful, the way it is all coming together for you, Ann. You plan sounds excellent.

(I should have known you would know not to feed treated wheat seed... but better safe than sorry.)

Our neighbor raises red wheat; what can I glean from him? straw/stalks? would he want to give it away? would their be good food value?

thx

cereshill":3h00g44p said:

Our neighbor raises red wheat; what can I glean from him? straw/stalks? would he want to give it away? would their be good food value?

thx

Click to expand...

Straw is bedding, not food. Rabbits will sometimes nibble on it for its roughage, but you really cannot consider it a food source for them.

Here straw sells for $2 a small bale... not that much less than alfalfa hay!

Wheat and Barley are almost exactly the same in food value. I can't even get Barley down here unless I special order it. Wheat is common. I think it may be the opposite up in parts of the north and Canada. There would be no advantage to feeding both. Pick whichever is easiest to obtain and least expensive in your area. Hard red winter wheat or Durham wheat has a point more protein, so cost being equal, it is preferable to soft wheat.

My rabbits took to wheat immediately.... but that may be because I would give them whole wheat bread occasionaly as a treat.

Added oats the other day. Just a corner of the feed trays/crocks. good god. They MOBBED it. Even Peter, (who likes his greens, but anything other than pellets gets pushed to the side) ate the oats.

so. Oats, 12% protein, and wheat @ 12.5%ish and alfalfa hay (19%). With a side dressing of sunflowerseeds (which I can grow), I think we'll be set for next winter. Cost should be approximately 1/2 the pellets. Less, if I can arrange with farmer Paul to trade my excess eggs for the hay. And by next fall the greenhouse at the farm will be up and running so I can grow the oat and wheat grass. (try, anyway)

You're moving ahead by (bunny) leaps and bounds, Ann! :goodjob:

heh. thanks.

As a sidenote...I think Mama-san is going to enjoy being out at the farm and the indoor/outdoor colony setting. Peter, poor boy, is going to HATE IT. I swear...he's the reincarnation of some big old BUBBA guy who sat on his couch drinking a beer and watching "the games" every weekend. You know the type...sits around in his underwear, only gets up when the wife hasn't brought him a new beer in time or when he has to head to the bathroom.

I put food in his dish and he looks at me from the back of the cage...SLOWLY gets up...stretches...then kind of saunters over to check it out. Drop some greens on his head and he'll get excited, but put them in the dish? HAH.

Poor Peter. He's become a slug because Mama-san always has a headache!

Ann,

With such good alfalfa hay, you don't need to be adding much protein. Soybeans have to be cooked before you use them, I would just leave them out of your recipe. Same with corn, it adds carbs to feeed mixes with a lot of soybean or cotton seed meal. It has some downsides whether cracked or whole, might want to leave it out too. Wheat or barley is a good addition. I think wheat has more vitame E.
With such good alfalfa, you won't need much BOSS... that tends to be an expensive additive.

You might want to add a mineral spool, since there may not be enough salt and minerals available in the grains and alfalfa. They are really bad about rusting cage wire..... maybe a small crock?

With alfalfa and wheat you pretty much have all the carbs, fats, and proteins you need. What you can't rely on, is that there are the proper micro-nutrients and vitamins. These are the kind of things that show up over a long period and with things like fertility and disease resistence. That means you proably ought to supliment with a "variety", not much in volume, but as much different greens and odd grains as possible. There would be no way to measure what is ine each one without complicated lab equipment. Things like oats, milo, pumpkin seeds, Boss, etc, as wide as a variety as you can find. Of course, the greens, but you are going to be limited with them in the winter unless you have a friendly green-grocier who will give you all his trimmings.

Alfalfa hay is higher in protein- low in fibre. And Timothy hay is higher in fibre- low in protein.
Each hay has it's feed benefits. Some feed Timothy to reduce fat and some feed Alfalfa for rapid WT gain.
Fibre is good to prevent fur block.
Alfalfa gets interesting to learn about. There is 1st,2nd and 3 rd grade cuttings.Each cutting has different food values, Protein levels, and vitamin content. You do know Alfalfa is a legume? Right? The other hays are grasses. Also there is many varieties/ types of alfalfa. Each has different food values as well. The greener the better, and never moldy is best.
Look up the subject of alfalfa on google. It's not the same every time it's harvested, and that needs to be figured in when using it as a primary feed for rabbits. There is some Universities who have some good write ups on Alfalfa.
Right now there is battle in the highest U.S. Courts in regard to allowing GM Alfalfa to be legal to grow in the U.S. Right now it is not legal to grow. I hope that may never change. It will not only be in Alfalfa hay bales, but rabbit pellets too. If this is allowed to be grown in the U.S.
To learn more check out: The true Food Network
http://truefoodnow.org/?CFID=23637138&CFTOKEN=63422387

Welcome to RabbitTalk, Surfing_Bunny! :hi:

The info you posted on alfalfa is excellent. Thank you!