genetics question

what happens if i breed a copper satin to a red satin? lets assume the red has a full red background. the copper has a white mom, and a broken black dad. the mom's parents on one side are white and on the other side are chins. the broken black dad's ancestory is all blacks, whites, and broken blacks. basically, i want to know what i'll get if i breed a copper to a red. will i get some coppers? or mostly reds? or mush?

I have been searching the internet for answers to color/genetics and I found a couple of sites.
One site is about Mini Rex which may help for other color questions but not specifically for this question. http://mr-colors.tripod.com/

Here is another site that has a lot of information about terms, colors and even how to plan out what color possibilities you may have in a specific litter http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.co ... sindex.php

Hope these help!

weird I swore I posted here. I found this site http://www.freewebs.com/deepwellfarm/sa ... colors.htm

If you read about the copper color you will see that this cross is recommended. The red will lend rufous modifiers to the copper and brighten the copper offspring. The "copper" color sounds like a genetic agouti, like "castor" and "chestnut", just another name for them. Copper will therefore be dominant to red and you might not get reds in the first cross, but if you cross the offspring back to the red you will get reds on the next try. Copper can carry red, so you may already have it in your copper, but the white in the pedigree covers so much there is no way for me to be sure.

Red requires a double dose of the "e" gene, which is the most recessive of the set.
The "e" is the gene that is called non-extension and keeps the black or brown from showing up on agouti rabbits.
If you breed a copper/chestnut/castor to a red animal, unless it carries a hidden "e" [non=extension] gene, the babies will probably all be copper.
All of them will be carriers of the non-extension "e" gene from their red parent, thus if bred back to each other they will throw some reds. though the can also throw tort if they are also carrying the "a" self gene, which they could be since that's what a black must have, "aa" for self. Since it's recessive it could be hiding in the agouti parent/

SterlingSatin":3liwoil3 said:

what happens if i breed a copper satin to a red satin? lets assume the red has a full red background. the copper has a white mom, and a broken black dad. the mom's parents on one side are white and on the other side are chins. the broken black dad's ancestory is all blacks, whites, and broken blacks. basically, i want to know what i'll get if i breed a copper to a red. will i get some coppers? or mostly reds? or mush?

Click to expand...

Many of the reds you get in your litters are most likely to have smut on their coats when a copper is intro'd to the bloodlines. Not to worry, it's a fault, not a DQ, so if they have good type, that's a plus.

Where you need to be most worried is with the copper having white in her background, as it will generate white toenails, which IS a showroom DQ. Most breeders who use whites in any other variety are trying to improve type, as it is something which reds and coppers often lag on in comparison to other rabbits on the show table. Another problem you may encounter is that of having white belly color. On reds particularly, that is a DQ as well because their undercolor on the belly is supposed to be creme, but not white. Chinchillas are required to have ring color, and absence of it is a showroom DQ.

Eye color is yet another concern. The color the eyes are supposed to be varies with each variety. Reds and coppers are supposed to have brown eyes, not green or blue. Chinchillas are supposed to have brown eyes, but blue/gray is acceptable. If you get brokens, their eye color is supposed to be consistent with the color of their broken pattern (i.e., blue broken should have the same eye color as solid blue, black brokens are supposed to have the same eye color required for regular blacks, etc.).

thanks everybody!
@eco2pia: i'm sorry, you did, i originally posted this question in rabbit care, and then i realized it should probably go in the genetics section, so i reposted it in there, and you ended up answering both.
@satinsrule: thanks for all the good information. i don't really care if my reds are smutty, because i'm not going for reds, i'm trying to get coppers. you made a good point about the toenails. the copper that i was talking about in my question is DQd because of one white toenail. she is my only lead on coppers and i really want to breed her, but maybe it isn't worth it as i will introduce light/white tonails to my line. do you think there is a point in breeding her?

Yes,
there is a point in breeding her.
Just because she threw one White toenail does not mean
that every kit she bears will carry the same.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

Absolutely there is a point in breeding with her, and here's a solid suggestion (well, a broken suggestion perhaps):

I was watching the judging of Satins earlier this year by a high-ranking ARBA officer. He was throwing a fantastic Chin Satin off the table for a white toenail, and when the breeder who owned it came to pick it up, his exact words were: "Consider breeding it to a broken."

Here is the thinking: Toenails are supposed to be white on brokens, but colored toenails are not a showroom DQ. I'm thinking that copper would be a good option to breed with for brokens, or simply for more coppers if that's really what you want to do. If the latter is the case, get a good copper with as much non-white or brokens in its background as possible, and breed using it.