Register

Bunny colour help?

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
Posts: 12
Joined: September 26, 2019
Great Britain Female
Thanks: 9
Thanked: 3 in 3 posts
BunnyBucks: 108.00

Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Keiraash13 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:24 am


Hi there! Second ever litter and wondered if i’m Getting this right.
Sire a chestnut agouti minilop with VM
Dam a sooty fawn/ black tort
I think I have a black with VM as patch on head, pink on ear and lower tum pink, an orange or cream and three sooty fawns(?) but doubting the latter. Is it possible they could be anything else?
16/11 Updated with photos taken in natural light.
Attachments
5C6A52E5-D3FA-4EB8-924C-46CFE10E2392.jpeg
5C6A52E5-D3FA-4EB8-924C-46CFE10E2392.jpeg (72.18 KiB) Viewed 78 times
EF496D83-0976-41C3-9295-3706F3A774C4.jpeg
EF496D83-0976-41C3-9295-3706F3A774C4.jpeg (74.65 KiB) Viewed 78 times
B0134C4B-41BD-41FB-A9AD-F7CA0973CEAE.jpeg
B0134C4B-41BD-41FB-A9AD-F7CA0973CEAE.jpeg (101.09 KiB) Viewed 78 times
692C180F-53E7-415E-B13C-FD0A00EC43D1.jpeg
692C180F-53E7-415E-B13C-FD0A00EC43D1.jpeg (95.2 KiB) Viewed 78 times

Site Supporter
7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6427
Joined: November 16, 2012
Location: Ontario
Thanks: 123
Thanked: 1759 in 1467 posts
BunnyBucks: 32,475.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#2  Unread postby Dood » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:26 pm


Black tort /sooty fawn
Siamese sable
Black
Siamese sable
Siamese sable

The following user would like to thank Dood for this post
Keiraash13

Posts: 12
Joined: September 26, 2019
Great Britain Female
Thanks: 9
Thanked: 3 in 3 posts
BunnyBucks: 108.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Keiraash13 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:59 pm


Dood wrote:Black tort /sooty fawn
Siamese sable
Black
Siamese sable
Siamese sable

Brilliant thank you so much! Having looked into it a lot, I can to the same conclusion on the Siamese sable. Which I guess means the agouti or black tort carries Cchl recessively?
The black tort/ sooty fawn is becoming an orange. (I think).
Attachments
3560C99A-0CB3-4F78-9B86-56DD35499776.jpeg
3560C99A-0CB3-4F78-9B86-56DD35499776.jpeg (179.58 KiB) Viewed 57 times

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 273
Joined: September 15, 2010
Location: Hawaii
Thanks: 12
Thanked: 52 in 49 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,220.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#4  Unread postby hotzcatz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:38 am


The baby is a tort of some sort, not fawn. Fawn would have white inside the ears, around the eyes and the whole undercarriage would be white.

This also means the dam is a tort of some sort, not a sooty fawn.

If you bred an agouti of any variety to a fawn (which is an agouti based color) the probability of getting five non-agouti (solid colored) babies from that crossing is very unlikely. As in very, very, very unlikely. What you have is a litter of all solid colors, none of them have the white inside the ears of an agouti based color pattern. Which is still unlikely but within fairly easy possibility if it's an agouti to a tort.

black aa B_ C_ D_ E_
chocolate aa bb C_ D_ E_
chocolate tort aa bb C_ D_ ee
sable & sable? aa bb C chl D_ E_ (if they look almost black as adults, then they may be dark sable which is: aa B_ C chl D_ E_ . )

FWIW, all those colors are considered non-agouti or 'solid' colors. Is the male actually a chestnut agouti?

From your two parents, their genetic color chart based on their colors would be:
Agouti sire: A_ B_ C_ D_ E_ VM
Tort Dam: aa B_ C_ D_ ee
adding in the genes they have to have in order to have the offspring they did:
Agouti Sire: Aa Bb C chl D_ Ee VM. So he carries chocolate and non-extension (tort, fawn) dunno about albino or dilute.
Tort Dam: aa Bb C chl D_ ee Now you know she carries chocolate, dunno about albino or dilute.

Here's what the various letters mean:
Dominant A is Agouti, recessive a (two of them) for solid color patterns
Dominant B is Black, two recessives will produce brown (chocolate)
Dominant C and the bunny shows color, two recessives and it's an albino. There's also some more "C"s - dark chinchilla, light chinchilla, himi, albino
Dominant D and the color is Dense, two recessives and it's dilute. (Black to blue, chocolate to lilac)
Dominate E and the color Extends all the way down the hair shaft. Two recessives and only the yellow colors extend down the hair shaft. Can be modified by rufus/red
Vienna is dominant but is weird. Needs two to be a Blue Eyed White Rabbit. One dominant and it's a Vienna Marked, although can carry one and not show it. All your offspring from the buck should have "Possible Vienna Carrier" written somewhere on their pedigree.

Double check all this, it's late at night and I'm not checking my notes but just blithely typing.
Last edited by hotzcatz on Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
Hula Bunny Yarn from Hillside Farm Hawaii
http://www.hillsidefarmhawaii.com

The following user would like to thank hotzcatz for this post
Keiraash13

Posts: 12
Joined: September 26, 2019
Great Britain Female
Thanks: 9
Thanked: 3 in 3 posts
BunnyBucks: 108.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Keiraash13 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:47 am


hotzcatz wrote:The baby is a tort of some sort, not fawn. Fawn would have white inside the ears, around the eyes and the whole undercarriage would be white.

This also means the dam is a tort of some sort, not a sooty fawn.

If you bred an agouti of any variety to a fawn (which is an agouti based color) the probability of getting four non-agouti (solid colored) babies from that crossing is very unlikely. As in very, very, very unlikely. What you have is a litter of all solid colors, none of them have the white inside the ears of an agouti based color pattern. Which is still unlikely but within fairly easy possibility if it's an agouti to a tort.

It is odd indeed. Here’s an update. He’s definitely a chestnut agouti and the dam is a sooty fawn- aka as a black tort here in the uk.
So pic wise we have three black torts but all different, a black self and an orange. (The only agouti who does indeed have a white tum).
Attachments
2BA6F7B2-F73D-4BCF-A7DA-9DF8226E318D.jpeg
2BA6F7B2-F73D-4BCF-A7DA-9DF8226E318D.jpeg (59.36 KiB) Viewed 25 times
F4C178C0-D944-4D45-BDA9-63BD212D0E84.jpeg
F4C178C0-D944-4D45-BDA9-63BD212D0E84.jpeg (64.54 KiB) Viewed 25 times
1C55DF4A-8067-4ED0-803F-66ECB17787A3.jpeg
1C55DF4A-8067-4ED0-803F-66ECB17787A3.jpeg (68.89 KiB) Viewed 25 times
CFD921D1-3833-45D8-A70B-00BB8814B1CD.jpeg
CFD921D1-3833-45D8-A70B-00BB8814B1CD.jpeg (69.28 KiB) Viewed 25 times
A39069B0-DFBE-4CEC-B23B-65ADCD37D33A.jpeg
A39069B0-DFBE-4CEC-B23B-65ADCD37D33A.jpeg (70.01 KiB) Viewed 25 times
Last edited by Keiraash13 on Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 273
Joined: September 15, 2010
Location: Hawaii
Thanks: 12
Thanked: 52 in 49 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,220.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#6  Unread postby hotzcatz » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:13 am


Oh, a "sooty fawn" in the U.S. is a fawn with a grey tinge to the ears and nose. As a black tort, that makes a lot more sense, genetically speaking.

Cute little bunners! Whatever their genetics are.

If it's midnight here, must be about lunchtime there?

This is DaffyDill, and I guess he's a 'sooty fawn' since he's a black tort? He doesn't look anywhere near as dark as yours?

Image
Hula Bunny Yarn from Hillside Farm Hawaii
http://www.hillsidefarmhawaii.com

The following user would like to thank hotzcatz for this post
Keiraash13

Posts: 12
Joined: September 26, 2019
Great Britain Female
Thanks: 9
Thanked: 3 in 3 posts
BunnyBucks: 108.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Keiraash13 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:21 am


Strange isn't it the variety in one type!
It’s now just gone 11am here.
What a fluffy bunny :)

Posts: 30
Joined: August 20, 2019
Thanks: 7
Thanked: 8 in 7 posts
BunnyBucks: 203.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#8  Unread postby Mini Lop Fan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:00 pm


Those are adorable bunnies. :) They are 3 weeks old now, right?

The following user would like to thank Mini Lop Fan for this post
Keiraash13

Posts: 12
Joined: September 26, 2019
Great Britain Female
Thanks: 9
Thanked: 3 in 3 posts
BunnyBucks: 108.00

Re: Bunny colour help?

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Keiraash13 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:38 pm


Mini Lop Fan wrote:Those are adorable bunnies. :) They are 3 weeks old now, right?

I think so too! Very sweet little characters too. They are three weeks now.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest