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Question about VM VC

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Question about VM VC

Post Number:#1  Unread postby ipoGSD » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:06 am


So i got a female VM Netherland last summer. She had her first litter 2 days ago. She was bred to mighy, no where on his pedigree does it mention any VM's VC's or BEW's but this litter sure looks like one of the kits has a blaze. And another kit looks white, BEW? RED? Or maybe a light fawn.. Tho theres not much fur to really tell but thats what im seeing as of right now.

If a VM doe is bred to a non VM/VC then statistically some would be a hidden carrier which is a VC and some would be normal- non VC correct? If in fact the one kit does have a blaze, does that mean Mighty is a VC? If so wow i got lucky!!!

Mom
https://imgur.com/a/dXSQolN

Dad
https://imgur.com/a/Cow1YWc

Possible VM kit?
https://imgur.com/a/gLitqcg

Litter pic
https://imgur.com/a/dHG8I7Q

Am i grasping at straws here or is that a VM and possibly a white? Not sure about their colors yet but either way, im super happy and excited to see them grow :)


Also, if you breed a BEW to a non carrier, will all kits be VC's?

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#2  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 am


I think you seem to misunderstand what VC, VM and BEW mean.

The vienna gene works in pairs.
VC is a rabbit with only 1 gene that doesnt show it at all. Aka no white markings anywhere and no blue eyes.
VM is a rabbit with only 1 gene also, but this one happens to show it. They can have blue eyes but not always. It's called VM because of the white markings. The stripe on the forehead, a white colar or shoulders, a white sock on their feet are all common markings. I've had a female in the past where her only white spot was near her vulva, random right?
In your kit's case, it's a VM. Just have to wait to see if Its a blue eyed vm or not.
BEW is the result of receiving 2 genes and if you breed a BEW to a non carrier, you'll have 50%chance of VC and 50% chance of VM in the kits. So they'll all receive a gene, but some might not show it.

As for the one in the litter, it does look white. This means one of 2 things; either both your rabbits carry the albino gene or your male is a VC. The vienna gene can skip several generations sometimes and remain hidden. So the pedigree doesnt always tell everything. Same thing applies to albino that wont show up unless the kit receives 2 albino genes from the parents.
In short, wait till the eyes open, if they're red it's a REW, both parents carry albino, if they're blue it's a BEW wich means your male is VC.

Edit: forgot to mention there's a very rare color combo that could happen given the right genes falling into place just right. I had a broken (almost charlie) tort kit who had the vienna marks fall in such a way she essentially was a white bunny with just a few spots on her back. But you could tell even at birth:
Here is very soon after birth, the fuzz didnt have time to grow yet, the one on the far left. Though it's very hard to see, if you look hard you can already tell the skin is a bit tanner then the rest where the spots will be. http://kimitsukouseki.wixsite.com/bunbun-stories/2018-05-30-bigmamatresor?lightbox=dataItem-ji0xpggp
And here is once the fuzz has started. She's on the right and you can clearly see the spots. http://kimitsukouseki.wixsite.com/bunbun-stories/2018-05-30-bigmamatresor?lightbox=dataItem-ji0xpggo
Your white kit already has fuzz, so you'd see the markings if this was the case.
Here's some pics my customer sent me of her at around 6 months
Image
Image

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ipoGSD

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#3  Unread postby ipoGSD » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:30 pm


Hi Kim, ty for your reply and explanation. I appreciate it very much. So just to clarify.. You're saying Flicka the vm nethie mom can produce a vm kit with a normal (non carrier) dad? I thought some would just be hidden carriers, didnt realize she could produce a visual.

I have had 2 litters of hollands from a blue eyed VM holland doe and non carrier father and none of the kits in either litters ever had any white, so i assumed producing VMs from a breeding like that was impossible. Which is why i got so excited when i saw the VM netherland, i thought Mighty was a VC. So.. time will tell, it all remains to be seen with that white netherland kit.. (talks to the baby.. "no pressure but have blue eyes dang it" hahaha

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#4  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:17 am


She can and will produce VM, 50% of the babies will receive her blue eyed genes and half of those will be VC and the other VM. So 50% non carrier, 25% VC, 25% VM
Keep in mind, % are what they are depending how lady luck treats you you could have several litters without any VM and several with only VM.
Trésor, the dad of the bunny I showed you, is a VM. He has brown eyes but he has the white mark on his nose and paw. BigMama, the mom, is a non-carrier.

A BEW, blue eyed white, can only happen if both parents are at minimum single gene carriers, either VC or VM.

Getting a VM doesn't mean anything towards your male, but if the completly white baby is blue eyed then your male 100% IS a VC

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#5  Unread postby ipoGSD » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:34 pm


Thank you so much for the help and clarification. I appreciate it immensely!!! My guess is the white one (if indeed it is white, could be a lighter color, still not much fur) anyway my guess if it is white, it will have red eyes. Mighty has produced about 6 or 7 litters and ive never had any with white. So im assuming he isnt a VC. Eithe4 way, im still happy, they will be beautiful kits :)

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Dood » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:14 pm


".... So 50% non carrier, 25% VC, 25% VM..." This is incorrect

it is completely random whether a VC will exhibit white areas and hence become a VM. you could have all the kits that inherited Vienna be marked or none. It is these hidden carriers that make vienna HIGHLY undesirable by most breeders, as Murphys law would be that the best looking kit in the litter inevitably gets a white mark and disquaified :(

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#7  Unread postby ipoGSD » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:59 am


Dood i breed for healthy, happy and pretty pets only. I never advertise them as show quality/potential. So i am happy/excited to start adding the vm gene to my bunnies :) i think VM bunnies are beautiful :)

And on another note. I had JUST said mighty has never produced any other kits with white markings.. well check this out!
https://imgur.com/a/ZvEqHb9 unless the gene came from moms side.. he could very well be a VC :)

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#8  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:31 am


Dood wrote:".... So 50% non carrier, 25% VC, 25% VM..." This is incorrect

Dood..... I was speaking % as in probability and do specify right after it all depends on how luck treats you. Saying it's outright wrong leaving out the part that specifies luck and then saying it's just luck. That's not very fair now is it?

ipoGSD wrote: And on another note. I had JUST said mighty has never produced any other kits with white markings.. well check this out!
https://imgur.com/a/ZvEqHb9 unless the gene came from moms side.. he could very well be a VC :)


Is that kit from a previous litter? if so then yeah, both parrents of that kit could be potential VC.

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Re: Question about VM VC

Post Number:#9  Unread postby ipoGSD » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:04 pm


Yes different litter :)
The first litter was Flicka x Midas (aka Mighty)
The litter with the darker vm kit is Kitty x Mighty

And i fully understand that the percentages with breeding is just the luck of the draw. :) may the odds be ever in my favor lol

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