Lops: velveteen or english?

So this is not an immediate thing we are planning to work on, but my hubby and I are considering shifting from unknown lop mixes to an actual breed. So far we really like the looks of the English lop or the Velveteen lop. Anyone here breed these? Temperaments? Extra needs?
(thinking the big ears might needing specific care, especially in winter?) Other tips? Other lop breed suggestions (because why not)?

I will say I love my Hollands, and they are very popular as pet rabbits here and not too saturated of a market.

That being said they sometimes have issues with being bred/pregnancy at the very get go, after you have one proven you shouldn't have any problems. They can be flighty but I have several that are very sweet tempered and then some that are standoffish but not mean or anything.

From what I've read about English lops you have to be very careful about their ears at all times, especially if you are showing/producing show stock. Nicks and tears can be issues. They need a bit more room compared to a similar sized rabbit with regular ears. Solid bottom cages are more popular for them also.

I haven't looked into velveteens, personally I like the dwarf rabbits so I was thinking about maybe working on my own line of dwarf velveteens or buying some velveteen stock and working with that, but that's for the future not any time soon. I LOVE the Rex fur type though.

Thanks ozemba. I have looked into the Holland lop, but the market here is just too saturated.

I looked at getting a couple english lops for a while, but eventually decided they were a little much for me. I have a friend that had them and velveteens and I can say with confidence that the ears ARE a problem for a lot of breeders. Overgrooming in the nest box was a bigger problem with them and she'd end up with partial ears. This also goes for litters, quite a few kits would end up with chewed ears. If they make it past this with ears intact, sometimes they just step on them and rip them that way. There's no winning. :lol: In the winter the ears are prone to frostbite, so precautions have to be taken there, too. She may have just had bad luck, but her bad luck was enough to scare me away.

Also... show stock around here is wildly price prohibitive. I don't know how prices are in your area, but every price quoted at me by breeders would have required a freaking bank loan for a trio.

If you want to branch into purebred show rabbits I'd go to a show in your area armed with questions for breeders, with a few breeds in mind, a couple transport carriers in your car, and a couple hundred dollars in your pocket. You may end up finding something unexpected that you'd really love to raise. We came home with a polish buck last weekend. I have never had any desire to raise the tiny breeds, but something kinda clicked. You never know what'll appeal to you!

I have raised Mini Lops and currently raise Velveteen Lops. I will say, my Velveteen Lops are the best rabbits I have ever had the pleasure of owning. They have amazing temperaments. Gulliver, my buck, is a big chocolate love bug who loves snuggles and head rubs. Jessamae, my doe, is a curious hyper goofball who adores her harness and her loving one-sided relationship with our Shih Tzu. Both Velveteens are easy keepers. When I got them, they were not emaciated and certainly healthy, but definitely on the thin side. In a couple weeks, I had them in better condition, without transition feed (oops). I live in Michigan, and because of their long ears I take them in if it gets to 20 degrees, and I have had no problems. They can get sore hocks easily since they are rex rabbits, but I use resting mats and mine have never had problems.
I also like my Mini Lops, and they stayed outside in all weather with no ear issues. But they didn't have as much personality as my V-Lops, excluding my remaining Mini doe born in my rabbitry, who's a sweetie and a licker.
Finally, I'd like to add that I am definitely biased towards Velveteen Lops. :lol:

I adored my velveteens, but, the ears were definitely cold sensitive.

The danger wasn't just frostbite, I was also told (by the breeder currently holding the COD at the time) that the rabbits can self mutilate if their ears become numb from cold.

For personality, I've never ever met more engaging rabbits. <3 Sweet puppy bunnies who would claim in my lap and fall asleep. They were lovely to be around, but wanted more attention than most, and were hard to cull. I've raised a ton of meat mutts and a couple different meat breeds with no problem putting them in the freezer when the time came, but the v-lops broke my heart every single time. They are said to inherit that from the e-lop side of their bloodlines though, so.. I imagine e-lops are pretty great too. I've always been told they were, but I've never owned one.

I have both breeds and they are amazing. I do find the english lops ears are a little too much maintenance for me. My english lops have a lazy laid back personality. The velveteen lops are by far my favorite breed I have ever had. The are affectionate and outgoing. I have 3 week old buns now and they are so fun. They are not skittish at all. If you are raising them for meat it might be hard for you to cull them. I raise them for pets and never have an issue finding them a home and I get a very good price for them. It is a breed we raise to make money that goes back into feeding our meat rabbits.

Sounds like velveteens are quite popular :lol:

I raise English Lops! My favorite breed ever, I don't know what I did before I got 'em!!!

The ears are a big factor. I've seen some fantastic animals faulted on the show table for chewed or torn ears. It can happen! I know a gal who had a lovely show quality doe who one day decided to eat about four inches off of each ear!!! Needless to say her show career ended that day.

BUT...it's not impossible. I live where it's bitterly cold. I'm right near the big lake. Today when it was in the fifties a mile inland, it was in the mid-thirties here. In winter I'm routinely dealing with temperatures approaching zero...or below. And my lean-to isn't exactly airtight. I just stuffed each hole with a bunch of straw. My baby buck was pretty young so I moved him into the garage where the temperature was closer to thirty instead of zero. Not one of my currently five English Lops got frostbite or ate their ears this winter.

The only injuries I've had thus far was a badly bruised eartip from my buck being too playful with some toys which healed without blemish, and my big old doe nicking her ear yesterday. Time will tell if the nick is visible once healed...and it doesn't much matter as she's retired from showing anyways.

Now...I'm gonna be candid here. I like Velveteen Lops and they're cute and sweet...but they're not accepted by the ARBA, and the club to my knowledge disbanded. No idea who has the current COD because when I asked on the Velveteen Lop facebook group, nobody would tell me. So there's that. Plus...I've talked to several show judges and some quietly refer to them as the "velveteen mistake." The complaint I've heard discussed is that they rarely have a good quality rex coat, and their ear shape and size is really variable, not a lot of consistency. If you are looking to show, and want a serious breed to show with, you might want to wait until they are approved and accepted. Whereas the English Lop is a fully accepted breed in the ARBA and are a good and competitive breed at many shows.

That being said, English Lops are a pretty decently big breed...and they EAT a TON...and poop A LOT!!! They're not small! My feed bill is a lot more now that I've got a herd of English Lops!!!! So if you are looking for cute pet bunnies, Velveteens might be a better choice because of the adult size of the English. Like mine are not huge but they're still BIG! Adults should end up around 11 pounds. That's bigger than a lot of people want for a pet. I know people who breed English Lops who don't terminally cull who not only can't sell pet quality culls, they can't even GIVE them away.

If you have any specific questions about English Lops, feel free to ask! I'll do my best to answer!!!!

Good points on the velveteens. I would have preferred to pet out unwanted stock, but, my line was riddled with health problems, to the point where I just strait up ended it.

As far as poor coats.. I have a hunch I know where some of that came from.

See, there was this persistent myth in the v-lop groups that balding kits would have better coats than regular kits, so breeders were intentionally trying to breed that kit-balding trait in as some kind of density shortcut, instead of selecting for density modifiers, like they should have been. :evil:

I was also pretty upset with the COD at the time that called for larger rabbits with longer ears, much preferring the smaller, shorter eared models as pets, because pets shouldn't be something that can be damaged too easily. Their view wasn't to breed pets though, it was for an exhibition breed, which made zero sense to me. Especially when I think about how hard early breeders worked to get that lovely e-lop temper into a smaller rabbit.

But, heh, no one has matching opinions, which probably accounts for much of that variability. :roll:

I agree with Kyle, I would say for showing as a focus you don't want only Velveteens. I fell in love with them and chose them as a side project - I also raise Jersey Woolies. As far as the COD holder, I do know who it is currently, but I don't know if I should be discussing names out in the open so I'd be happy to PM anyone interested. The current COD holder is working on a standard with a smaller rabbit and shorter ears, so that's something to look forward to if it passes the first showing in Massachusetts. I do agree that in a general sense, rex fur varies. I have a buck with too many protruding guard hair and a doe with short, soft and springy fur but lacking a bit of density. However, it is my understanding that the COD holder and other "big-time" V-lop breeders are pretty close to stamping those issues out. Then again, I'm a hopeless optimist, so who knows.

This is my brood velveteen. Her coat rivals some of my best rex coats. I wasn't aware that the standard was going for a shorter ear. This makes me happy to hear. I breed for pets and prefer a shorter ear in my kits. I also breed for a smaller size. I prefer them to reach about 5lbs as adults. My buyers love my v lops and I have a waiting list for them. I am not sure if it is just my stock but you couldn't find a better pet rabbit.

Okay, so I'm going to try and sum up what I have gathered so far in sort of a pro con like thing. I don't want anything to be wrong since this is a serious inquiry into these breeds so y'all correct me if I get anything wrong.

Velveteen
Pros: smaller size, very friendly, pretty popular pet
Cons: variable fur, currently unaccepted by ARBA, current COD fairly unknown, can be prone to sore hocks due to rex fur

English
Pros: showable, laid back temperament
Cons: higher food cost due to larger rabbit, large ears easily damaged, damaged ear=unshowable, can be hard to home due to size

Ears on both prone to cold damage

Did I get all of that correct? The feed costs of the English won't necessarily be an issue for me, and I currently raise mini rex so the sore hocks problem with velveteens wouldn't be a problem for me either. I just want to make sure I am understanding the pros/cons correctly