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Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

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Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Preitler » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:37 am


Hi,

I try to sell a doe, white, reddish eyes (with a blue tint).
Got a mail that she will take her, but for half the price because as a white broken she's going to die early.
Gosh, I charge 18€ for a 4kg 8 month rabbit, just to be well above meat prices, I'm not willing to haggle, but would like to know if her argument is valid.

Dam is a greyish brocken and was bred back to her sire, a light brown, torted broken. This are the first kits with reddish eyes I ever got.

I got a few whites in that litter, all developed normal. I get torted BEWs from that buck with a black doe.
(please pardon my ignorance about the correct terms :oops: )

I never had any issue with this broken x broken genetical problem, but thinking back, most times at least one parent was solid.

So, considering that my rabbits are a potporri of almost everything that is domesticated around here, is it true that this white has most likely a short life?

Pictures of doe in question, her dam with the entire litter, and the sire.
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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#2  Unread postby ladysown » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:26 pm


Nonsense and poppy cock, she's looking for a cheap,rabbit
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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Nymphadora » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:28 pm


Preitler wrote:Got a mail that she will take her, but for half the price because as a white broken she's going to die early.
...
I never had any issue with this broken x broken genetical problem, but thinking back, most times at least one parent was solid.

So, considering that my rabbits are a potporri of almost everything that is domesticated around here, is it true that this white has most likely a short life?

Hmmm, I wonder if maybe the lady was thinking of Charlies? A Charlie is still a broken pattern though (just very little color, less than 10% is accepted I believe). But since REW covers just about everything… I suppose it’s possible it’s a genetic Charlie? You wouldn’t be able to tell from looking at it though. If you bred it to a solid, the entire litter would have broken patterns, no solid kits at all. That’s how I would test for it if you planned to keep her.

Regarding Charlies… they do seem to suffer from gastrointestinal complications more frequently that solid or broken pattern rabbits. Maybe that’s why the lady was saying she’d probably have a short life (although I know people who have kept Charlies and managed to keep them mostly healthy). :shrug:

__________ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:28 am __________

ladysown wrote:Nonsense and poppy cock, she's looking for a cheap,rabbit

I agree, this is probably the root of it...

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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#4  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:50 pm


Charlies (useally from Broken × Broken) are NOT genetically weak!! One of my healthiest rabbits is a Charlie. She can take it for the price you are asking or not take it at all. Don't let people decide the price you charge based on color :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop:
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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Preitler » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:08 pm


Thanks, it helps to know that it's not that simple :)

Here, checkered giants are a quite popular breed, and (at least some purebred lines) do have problems with charlies, I guess that is widly known here and simply applied to all rabbits.

Thinking about that, the broken pattern of my rabbits doesn't actually look much like checkered giants or english spots, exept those 2 kits, I guess there is a lot more going on there... :D
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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Nymphadora » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:47 pm


Preitler wrote:Here, checkered giants are a quite popular breed, and (at least some purebred lines) do have problems with charlies, I guess that is widly known here and simply applied to all rabbits.

As Ozarkansas mentioned, not everyone has issues with genetic Charlies, and some grow to be healthy and normal. Some do develop GI issues though, more commonly than brokens or solids, which is why I mentioned it, and why it’s such a well-known issue where you are, probably.

To me it sounds like the woman you spoke with assumed that a REW from a broken-to-broken cross is the same as a Charlie. Which could genetically be true, but there shouldn't be any assumptions that it IS a Charlie, unless you've test bred her. So the lady was either trying to lower the price, or ignorant of how color genetics work.

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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Dood » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:07 am


Charlie's / homozygous for English spotting / "EnEn" are very frowned upon in many countries and even illegal to produce in a few

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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#8  Unread postby akane » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:13 pm


It seems to run in certain lines and therefore often certain breeds that charlie with 2 broken genes from 2 broken or charlie parents ends up with ongoing digestive issues and shortened lifespans if you are not careful about their health specifics. It doesn't seem to be consistent across all rabbits though. Some people will say their charlies are equally healthy and some will say they've had nothing but problems when they cross 2 brokens.

A rew is not the result of breeding brokens though and it may or may not be a charlie. Rew is an entirely separate gene that can show up out of any color if they have rew in the background and has nothing to do with broken or any known health issues except they have found animals with red or blue eyes may sometimes have reduced vision and some light sensitivity. That normally does not lead to any issues in rabbits. Since you did breed broken x broken the rew could be hiding the fact it is a charlie with 2 broken genes and then the argument some charlies have health issues and shortened lifespans could be applied. However, that can't be determined without breeding it to a ton of solids and seeing if you never get a solid. A charlie has to pass on a broken gene and make only brokens so sometimes they are bred on purpose to then crossed to solids for guaranteed litters of 100% brokens that you know are not charlies and can't come out solid. Desirable for a consistent result when you don't have much use for the offspring that aren't marked properly.
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Re: Does "broken mutt x broken mutt= REW" mean short life?

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Preitler » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 pm


Tried to read into genetics, doesn't seem too complicated, well, at least the basics.

So, on the litter picture above, there are two charlies, one broken and 2 REW kits that could be any combination of En and en.
Well, that REW doe I still have has developed some greyish patches recently, not perfectly white anymore, might be temperature related?

The buck is somewhat smutted, and produces torts and smutted BEWs with my black doe - does that mean he's actually black with ee (no rings on hairs, but they are a lighter shade towards the skin)? With an agouti doe I got black kits as well as agouti/brown/whatever...
But no, with the doe that looks pretty much like him (minus any dark patches) gets me only kits in that pale orange, solid, broken and charlies (all healthy)....

About that solid agouti doe - she once bred with a wild rabbit, also solid agouti, and produced broken kits? With patterns I havn't ever seen in my herd? How's that possible?

Too bad I can't engorge into test breeding, it starts to get interesting.... :lol:
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