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All I get is mutts!

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All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:09 am


I am so annoyed, discouraged, and sad right now! I bred 5 rabbits to have "Christmas Babies" Blue Flower a VC Blue Tort Mini Lop / Holland Lop mix to Chocolate Dutch buck, Destiny a REW American to BEW Beveren, and Miss Coconut my grand champion (as soon as I get her registered) Dutch doe to her $125 cousin I bought just for her due on the 25th. Sky my best Blue American doe due on the 26th. Sapphire my second best Blue American doe (BOV ARBA convention) due on the 27th.
First of all I did not get Christmas babies! They made me wait until the 27th!
Sky kindled first in the middle of the night. She moved the entire nest out of her box, and in the morning I found 8 kits scattered and dead.
Blue Flower was second hers looked like they were born right about 6 am. And she had 6 healthy babies (mutts)
Destiny had hers around noon, 8 healthy babies (mutts)
Miss Coconut had 4 around 1 pm, 2 regular sized kits who died right away and 2 tiny kits that lived. Around 7 pm she had 2 more stretched dead kits. What really makes me upset is all the kits had nearly perfect markings except they have white on their ears! She will likely be a better mother next time, but does this mean they will always have white on their ears?
The last one to kindle was Sapphire she had hers in the middle of the night last night. 6 very healthy looking kits but dead due to the fact she did not pull even one peice of fur!
So like the title says all I get is mutts (and 2 tiny mismarks). I didn't even really want the mutts, I was just playing with the genetics a little and the American / Beverens are all headed to freezer camp. I have bred rabbits for 4 years, and have a good 40 litters of experience. This is the first time I got an entire litter scattered on the wire, second time a doe didn't pull fur. So disappointed, I've never lost so many in 1 day! :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#2  Unread postby KimitsuKouseki » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:28 am


I'm so sorry /hugs

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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:18 pm


Thanks Kimi. I'm taking Sky to a freinds house this weekend to get bred to the best American buck I've ever seen, so that makes it a bit better. At least the mutts will be cute. :bunnyhop:
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#4  Unread postby shazza » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:07 pm


i've had crummy breeding luck too with my purebreds. i have a pair of mini lops from a family friend that sold out of rabbits entirely due to health issues, and of course the buck was injured a few years ago and isn't as virile as he once was, and the doe is a stubborn breeder :T i've gotten kits from her earlier this year, but none of the purebred ones made it due to freak accidents. i just want one!! and i culled my rex buck and don't have room to buy another one (well, i might, but y'know, moving soon!) so i can't try for rexes :(

i have bred her every month since september alongside another doe, and of course the other doe is the only one to take. so i have all these mutts and no lops! i feel your pain! i tried to rebreed her today and she's being stubborn!

and because i'm going to be moving soon, so i can't breed as many as i'd like anyway. normally i'd have almost all my does bred but i'm trying to keep the litters manageable so when we DO have to leave i don't have to sell 30 rabbits beforehand :p but i'm dying of kit withdrawl!
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Ferra » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:36 pm


At least you got the mutts! After my main mutt-doe lost her whole litter last month at ~12 days old, I though I could rebreed her and be good to go.

For the first time in a year, she didn't take. I was supposed to have Christmas Eve bunnies, as well - no dice.

However that too may be for the best, as the week around Christmas was brutally cold and it hasn't gotten better yet. I don't think my doe would have had the easiest time with the litter even if she had them.

So I rebred her and my elder Angora doe to their respective partners this week - wish me luck for both mutts and, hopefully, my first litter of purebreds!
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#6  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:15 pm


Thanks guys! Hope y'all have better luck with your next breedings. I'm just going to keep trying. I guess I'll get what I want eventually.
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#7  Unread postby akane » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:45 am


Are you not breeding until after showing? It's a downside that you'll have a more difficult time getting your first litters than with mutts where you generally have no reason to wait so they get bred when capable. Then when you throw in more variables to select for it's also much harder to select simply for production. That's why good show rabbits don't always make efficient meat rabbits even in breeds that started for meat and are intended to be judged around their capacity for it. I rather dislike showing animals on appearance alone instead of methods that measure abilities or usefulness for that reason. You tend to get one or the other because it's too hard to breed and in working animals also train for both.
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#8  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:39 am


Yes all of these does have been shown 1-3 times. INCLUDING the REW American who had mutts because I bred her to a BEW Beveren. The buck I wanted to breed her too was still a baby, and I wanted to test the colors. The lop doe also went to our county fair twice even though she is a mutt. Sky one of the Blue Americans was already proven and had never been shown when I bought her at ARBA convention this year. I don't think showing really has much to do with it when I have litter mates Sapphire and Destiny, both have been shown just as much, I breed Sapphire to a buck of her same breed and she doesn't pull fur, I breed Destiny to a different breed and she had 8 with no problem. I never wait over a year to breed and prefer to breed as soon as they hit senior weight. I can show them as juniors and 6-8. I have rare breeds (Beveren and American) and I'm trying to work towards the standard to bring the true breed back. I need purebred show quality babies. I also have Chocolate Dutch from the most expensive lines in the country and their size makes a lousy meat rabbit for more than one or two people unless you wait till they're nearly full grown whether they are show quality or not. I have 3 meat mutt does that are only for meat, and so far the 2 that are old enough to breed have been very good mothers. But honestly this time I wanted show rabbits, good show rabbits. And that's not what I got, so I'm going to breed to higher show quality bucks. And while that may not solve any mothering problems it could give me more what I'm looking for and maybe my does could figure out that pulling fur 18 hours after I found the babies frozen might not be how it's done :bunnyhop:
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Re: All I get is mutts!

Post Number:#9  Unread postby akane » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:21 am


Dutch were originally a meat breed in the 1800s until the fancy markings became prized for appearance and developed as a consistent trait. Many meat rabbits started out only around 6lbs with the over 10lb animals being far more recent. Probably due to commercial feed availability and people eating larger portions of meat per meal than ever before. It makes a far more efficient rabbit with less bone for the weight to go back to some of the smaller breeds if you can find quality production still maintained and I found benefits adding mini rex to my mutts for meat. My point was not really though meat breeds specifically but just that any breed or line not bred specifically for production is more likely to have problems. Since production is more important for producing lots of lower cost pets, pelts, or meat that's where it tends to be the strongest while it just becomes too many things to keep track of when also trying to follow the breed standard and/or latest show trends instead of just what works. There's a tendency to take something with the most perfect type you've got but can't get a dang litter out of and keep trying even if it's going to potentially create a bunch of equally difficult offspring until most of the breed in an area is that way. When breeds become rare it becomes even more likely since it takes so much travel to get them or else people cross them out purposefully to similar size and body type breeds to recover the lost traits. I gave up the creme d'argent attempt because while they were awesome rabbits they were also more New Zealand than argent. The main breeder in the area never gave more than a 3 generation pedigree because everything had a new zealand or 3 in those past generations. REW appeared periodically in everyone's creme d'argent rabbits but like everyone else I didn't want to travel half the country or ship in unrelated creme d'argent. I stuck with the champagnes for awhile that had been bred from very old lines and kept pure by a group of breeders on the WI border. They had such nice rabbits and large group of breeders with 100s of rabbits between them that they didn't have to make most of those compromises. While litters were a little small of 5 per doe they did breed with some of the least effort of any show quality rabbits I had.

I've also found sometimes crossing my purebred show lines to pet quality of another breed ended up with successful first litters or after winter/summer break to then breed to the purebred for the subsequent litters that year. It actually took less time to just get a litter right off of mutts when a rabbit that maxes at 5-6lbs was a perfectly fine meat rabbit or pet sale for me and then breed 3 more pure litters than spend multiple months trying to get a doe to breed only with the buck I wanted enough times to figure out successfully raising kits. After a litter both does and bucks tended to get the idea and kick in the hormones for the year or sometimes the rest of their producing life if it was just their first litter or 2 they had issues with. Aside from the champagnes I'd stick new does with this pet quality ND buck or a large chocolate mini rex that could get about anything bred including 12lb does a couple times. That's how I got mini rex into my meat line when I found they were actually superior meat rabbits even if half the size. :lol:
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