Register

Is this really red?

A place to ask about rabbit colours and to discuss rabbit genetics -- and how to breed for the desired results.
User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Is this really red?

Post Number:#1  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:37 pm


This rabbits mom is broken red, her dad is BEW. She looked red when she was a baby. But now I want to call her "Red Agouti". Is this just a result of improper color combinations? Or is there a name for this?
2017-11-11 13.36.19.jpg
2017-11-11 13.36.19.jpg (507.31 KiB) Viewed 123 times
2017-11-11 13.36.10.jpg
2017-11-11 13.36.10.jpg (816.15 KiB) Viewed 123 times
2017-10-11 18.16.17.jpg
2017-10-11 18.16.17.jpg (482.92 KiB) Viewed 123 times
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

Site Supporter
5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership5 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 6305
Joined: November 16, 2012
Location: Ontario
Thanks: 123
Thanked: 1688 in 1418 posts
BunnyBucks: 31,862.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#2  Unread postby Dood » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:45 pm


Not in my opinion

Looks like a chestnut with short ticking, commonly seen in sandy and light grey Flemmish, and high Rufus possibly from a dark red New Zealand

Any info on the parents ?

The following user would like to thank Dood for this post
Ozarkansas

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#3  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:12 pm


Her mom is a 'broken' Red New Zealand cross and actually has 2 copies of the broken gene, and one copy of the rex gene. Her dad is a purebred Beveren with all BEW in his pedigree except for one Blue-VM in the 3rd generation.
Here is a pic of her at 4 weeks with her mom:
2017-10-11 18.14.51.jpg
2017-10-11 18.14.51.jpg (575.63 KiB) Viewed 113 times

More info on this thread: why-does-this-doe-always-have-brokens-t32296.html
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

Site Supporter
3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2589
Joined: August 11, 2014
Location: Idabel, OK
Thanks: 58
Thanked: 604 in 505 posts
BunnyBucks: 14,070.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#4  Unread postby alforddm » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:34 pm


I'm thinking this maybe a highly marked chocolate steel. Even though it does show some ring color and eye rings, the ring color seems to be all lighter at the tips, which is not typical. I'm not seeing any black/gray in the ring color picture which would indicate a chocolate base and it looking red as a kit would also indicate chocolate.

It is possible to to have highly marked steels. Zass has shared pictures of them before and I've personally had a silver tipped one that looked very much like a chinchilla except for the lack of agouti marks on the feet (and production record). The feet are usually what I use for a marker in these cases, but of course since this one is broken, that isn't possible.

All I can say is test breed and see what happens.

The following user would like to thank alforddm for this post
Ozarkansas

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#5  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:41 pm


Well, she is due tomorrow to a Champagne D'Argent. Not sure if that can bring out anything though. I only bred her to him because he was my last Champagne and I was selling him, so I would never get the chance again.
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 650
Joined: May 30, 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
United States of America
Thanks: 4
Thanked: 194 in 174 posts
BunnyBucks: 3,186.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#6  Unread postby SableSteel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:44 pm


I'd probably go with chestnut (albeit high rufus chestnut) too. It's uncommon (not impossible, but not common) to get a non-extension rabbit out of a purebred beveren, and the rufus from the NZR can through off the color a bit, making the chestnut look more reddish. There is a sure way to tell though; baby chestnuts are born with colored skin, and baby reds are born with pink skin. Do you have any pictures of him as a newborn?
I have shown: bruns, hares, petites, dutch, spots, Flemish, harlequin, Havana, Himalayan, Hollands, jersey wooly, mini lop, mini rex, dwarfs, NZW, polish, standard chins, tan, vlops; American & coronet cavies

thesodi.com - the chicken game

The following user would like to thank SableSteel for this post
Ozarkansas

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#7  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:08 pm


I found two! I don't remember them looking quite so dark though...
2017-11-11 20.37.40.png
2017-11-11 20.37.40.png (399.5 KiB) Viewed 106 times
2017-11-11 20.37.29.png
2017-11-11 20.37.29.png (402.66 KiB) Viewed 106 times


__________ Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:08 pm __________

She just had 6 poples! They are dark in color. 3 broken, 2 solid, and 1 Vienna marked.
IMG_1510523547915.jpg
IMG_1510523547915.jpg (156.63 KiB) Viewed 86 times
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

Site Supporter
3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2589
Joined: August 11, 2014
Location: Idabel, OK
Thanks: 58
Thanked: 604 in 505 posts
BunnyBucks: 14,070.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#8  Unread postby alforddm » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:53 pm


Are the top couple of pics her and her littermates? If so then I think chocolate steel even more. I don't see any pink babies in that litter and I see several that look very chocolate.

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#9  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm


Yes that is her and siblings. Here is a one week photo:
2017-11-12 18.13.06.jpg
2017-11-12 18.13.06.jpg (330.43 KiB) Viewed 72 times

I really don’t remember them looking that chocolate, but I cannot deny they do look chocolate in the pictures....

__________ Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:56 am __________

Any more thoughts? SableSteel? Dood? Do you think she is Chocolate based?
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 650
Joined: May 30, 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
United States of America
Thanks: 4
Thanked: 194 in 174 posts
BunnyBucks: 3,186.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#10  Unread postby SableSteel » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:52 pm


From those pictures it does look chocolate based.
I have shown: bruns, hares, petites, dutch, spots, Flemish, harlequin, Havana, Himalayan, Hollands, jersey wooly, mini lop, mini rex, dwarfs, NZW, polish, standard chins, tan, vlops; American & coronet cavies

thesodi.com - the chicken game

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#11  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:36 pm


What test breedings can I do to prove it? I got all black based with the Champagne. Would I do better breeding her to blues or chocolates? What about BEW?
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

Site Supporter
3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2589
Joined: August 11, 2014
Location: Idabel, OK
Thanks: 58
Thanked: 604 in 505 posts
BunnyBucks: 14,070.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#12  Unread postby alforddm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:59 pm


If you have a chocolate breed her to that. Then if all the kits are chocolate, you can be fairly confident she is chocolate as well.

The following user would like to thank alforddm for this post
Ozarkansas

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#13  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:31 pm


I figured that would be the best. We have 2 Chocolate Dutch bucks so I can try one of them. I am almost positive 2 of her litter mates were true red though. Because I remember them being lighter in color, and not showing any Agouti like markings on butcher day while the rest of the litter did. How far back does chocolate have to be in a BEW without showing up in the babies? Kim Calloway told me he crosses the Chocolate and BEW somtimes, but the buck doesn't have any in the last 4 generations.
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

Site Supporter
3 years of membership3 years of membership3 years of membership
User avatar
Posts: 2589
Joined: August 11, 2014
Location: Idabel, OK
Thanks: 58
Thanked: 604 in 505 posts
BunnyBucks: 14,070.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#14  Unread postby alforddm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:49 pm


Where they all BEW? Because BEW covers everything like REW does. The buck himself could be chocolate and not show it. If the doe was also a red based chocolate (common as it reduces smutt in the reds), that could explain the litter.

User avatar
Posts: 213
Joined: August 19, 2017
Location: Arkansas
United States of America Female
Thanks: 103
Thanked: 28 in 28 posts
BunnyBucks: 1,177.00

Re: Is this really red?

Post Number:#15  Unread postby Ozarkansas » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:45 pm


The dad is all BEW except for a Blue VM in the Second generation, and that rabbit's mom who is a Blue VC. Not sure what the mom is, her previous onwner was breeding for meat only and said she was pure NZ. Not. :roll: But that's alright, because I wasn't looking for pure NZ I was looking for a meat mutt :)

__________ Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:45 pm __________

So the babies are a week old. So far they appear Self except for this one, that is either heavy Steel or Agouti. Every day he is less black. I was thinking Steel because his belly is not white. But he is getting eye circles and his belly is getting lighter. What do y'all think?
2017-11-20 14.35.25.jpg
2017-11-20 14.35.25.jpg (610.63 KiB) Viewed 4 times
2017-11-20 14.36.13.jpg
2017-11-20 14.36.13.jpg (223.76 KiB) Viewed 4 times
Attachments
2017-11-20 14.44.06.jpg
2017-11-20 14.44.06.jpg (506.53 KiB) Viewed 4 times
2017-11-20 14.37.38.jpg
2017-11-20 14.37.38.jpg (643.4 KiB) Viewed 4 times
Ozarkansas Rabbit Farms
Raising quality purebred Americans, Beverens, Dutch, and Palominos for meat, show, and pet.
htpp://www.ozarkansasrabbits.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests