Is there such a thing as lace bone?

Or fillagree skull perhaps?

I had one of our does go down suddenly not too long ago, went from fat to bones in about two or three days so I put her down. I gave her a good look inside and all seemed just fine, liver, heart, lungs, kidneys, all fine but the way her head was attached to her neck felt really odd - kind of like a right angle - so I put the head and neck into sawdust outside for the bugs to clean off for me.

Well, took it out today and it is REALLY weird! It looks like its made out of lace! And the teeth fell out when I was washing it so have lost most of them but the roots were very short and brown. The front teeth fell out even.

She was a doe that always seemed a little bit "off" as did her sister, who is also now in sawdust but not clean enough yet to see if her bones are the same.

So I thought I would ask if anyone else has seen anything like it?

No pictures yet but will try to get some later.

Bone infection maybe?

I believe it's a genetic metabolic bone disease that specifically causes a dental disorder and confines the obvious symptoms to the skull. I'm not sure it has a name or is just seen in a variety of genetic disorders and vitamin D deficiency where the same progression of bone demineralization is described. It is documented in several rabbit medical books and articles of diseases as starting with the poor teeth and spreading to loss of skull structure sometimes with tooth abcesses developing as a sign and sometimes not. The effect on the continued formation of the teeth (as rabbit teeth are always using more minerals, especially calcium, to continually grow normally) and decline of the jaw bone always loosens the teeth. Eating properly would become difficult and there are probably other underlying problems that might impact functions of the body leading to poor condition but exact proven causes are not really covered and no other visual observations of damage to organs and structures is mentioned. The only appearance is on the bone and everything detailing the progression of the bone disease is from necropsy of various stages. Living rabbits generally are only diagnosed a type of dental disease if they develop secondary dental problems or veterinary examination discovers the tooth decline with blood tests to show possible contributing factors like vit d deficiency that may or may not correct the problem. In a working herd simply culling the individuals and being careful with the line if you continue it is probably the only course of action unless you have a major feed or husbandry issue that could cause such severe damage to formation of the bone.

Thanks Akane! Much more clear now. The skull is beautiful but poor poor bunny. We only had her and her sister for 3 months and am really glad I culled the sister when I did, I hate anything to suffer and rabbits hide it so well.

wow, do you have photos? that sounds interesting. horrifying, but interesting. i have a wide collection of skulls and pathological ones in particular interest me a lot!

it sounds like it was a good thing you culled them when you did. poor babies.

No pictures yet but I promise, soon! Its drying now from its final wash and inside to keep it safe. I wanted to let the sun whiten it a bit as its fresh bone color instead of bright white but then I thought of the dogs and went "Hmmmmmm, I don't think so!" :lol:

GBov":3udvzg7b said:

No pictures yet but I promise, soon! Its drying now from its final wash and inside to keep it safe. I wanted to let the sun whiten it a bit as its fresh bone color instead of bright white but then I thought of the dogs and went "Hmmmmmm, I don't think so!" :lol:

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You can put it in a solution of 1/2 regular household peroxide and 1/2 water to whiten. A day or a bit more will usually do it.

alforddm":3gdjl4od said:

GBov":3gdjl4od said:

No pictures yet but I promise, soon! Its drying now from its final wash and inside to keep it safe. I wanted to let the sun whiten it a bit as its fresh bone color instead of bright white but then I thought of the dogs and went "Hmmmmmm, I don't think so!" :lol:

Click to expand...

You can put it in a solution of 1/2 regular household peroxide and 1/2 water to whiten. A day or a bit more will usually do it.

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Will it be safe for a delicate bone? That is great to know though, the gator jaw bones are dull so could do with whitening but didn't know how.

I LOVE it here!

I've never had a problem with delicate bones in the hydrogen peroxide solution. If you're worried about it just decrease the h2O2 a bit.

Did you degrease the gator bones? I would think gator would be pretty greasy. You should soak those in a ammonia solution (maybe 1/4-1/2 cup/gal) and possibly change the solution if it gets really cloudy. Then, you can whiten the gator the same way or use a commercial peroxide (aka hair bleach) gel. If the bones aren't degreased before they are whitened, the grease in the bones will seep out slowly and darken areas of the bone.

alforddm":263arssb said:

I've never had a problem with delicate bones in the hydrogen peroxide solution. If you're worried about it just decrease the h2O2 a bit.

Did you degrease the gator bones? I would think gator would be pretty greasy. You should soak those in a ammonia solution (maybe 1/4-1/2 cup/gal) and possibly change the solution if it gets really cloudy. Then, you can whiten the gator the same way or use a commercial peroxide (aka hair bleach) gel. If the bones aren't degreased before they are whitened, the grease in the bones will seep out slowly and darken areas of the bone.

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I have not! As I have just started with the bone thing I didn't know how to do that either. Usually I find bones so doing it from scratch is new. I love new things!

Thank you so much!

-- Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:09 am --

Actually, I think I shall mosey on over into the hide section and post a dedicated bone thread. That way beginner bone cleaners like me can have a go to spot. <br /><br /> -- Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:55 pm -- <br /><br /> *sigh* Have now spent too much time once again trying to post pictures and failing. The pictures are really nice too! :roll: I even tried to PM Homer to see if he would post them for me but the computer is insisting he does't exist.

Think a break and tea is called for instead of more yelling at the screen! :lol:

I sent you a pm with my email address. I'll get them added for you. <br /><br /> -- Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:22 pm -- <br /><br /> Here are GBov's photos...

Woah!! That is super cool!! I feel sad for the rabbit, but the skull is certainly a site to see

THANK YOU Alforddm!!!

The skull is really cool so I wanted people to be able to see it. I checked the sawdust outside yesterday and her sisters skull is almost clean. Its just the same. And perhaps this time I can save the teeth instead of loosing them in the pool when washing it. <br /><br /> -- Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:23 am -- <br /><br /> Forgot to add, when I bought those rabbits I got several more, most of which have gone to live at our old 4H group. The good thing is that, while they may all either have, or carry, whatever is wrong, they will not be bred so can't pass it on.

this is kind of weird, but that looks somewhat normal to me :'D i have the skull of one of my mini lops and it looks similarly "cheesy". she died of a heat stroke, she was very healthy and happy up until then. in fact most of my adult rabbit skulls have some of those little hole in the skull and jaws (the ones on the side of the nose are found even in wild rabbits.) i just figured it was a rabbit thing! could it be a calcium thing? i wonder if i should start supplementing my rabbits a bit more.

edit:




adult mini lop doe on the left, adult rex buck on the right. they both have lots of little pockmarks, especially the mini rex. i would say it's fairly normal? all the rabbits i've cleaned, even wild rabbits and young growouts all have some degree of pocking on the back of the skull and the jaws. like i said, the lacy bits on the side of the nose are always present regardless of age or species.

the mini lop skull is the doe that died of heat stroke. the rex was culled for having a poor coat texture at around 7 months, and he was also in otherwise perfect health.

Probably not a thing, but is it possible a certain kind of bug was chewing at the thinner parts of the bone?

While I have not cleaned skulls before I have picked them up from the yard after the dogs dug them up and they have NEVER looked like that!

But perhaps my solid skulls were abnormal and not these lacy ones?

the younger the rabbit the less lacy they are, i've found. you said these rabbits were adults - might have something to do with it?? it's almost like they get more holey as they get older. which is why i wonder if maybe they're lacking in calcium? like lacy seems to be "normal" but i wonder if it really is NORMAL or of most adult rabbits need a bit extra calcium or something. the rest of the skeletons seem fine, it's really just the skull that seems affected.

I do believe GBov's show more lacing than mine generally do. I usually don't keep track of which bunny skull belong but this was a larger skull so I'm assuming it was an adult I recently culled. Of course, I have yet to keep a rabbit over 2 yrs so most of mine will still be fairly young.

I use outside hutches and while most of them are in the shade, they do still get quite a bit of natural light. My reading led me to believe it was lack of vitamin D that caused problems because it hindered calcium absorption.

Am so glad I started this! I love learning new thing and this is all new to me. Have had a look on Etsy and all the skulls look either more or less like my one does but to my eyes they all look wrong.

I have collected skulls for all my life and have NEVER seen any skull like these rabbit skulls. That's why I thought it was abnormal.

Perhaps it is a lack of calcium or vit D so they can use it?

alforddm":2upkr82l said:

II use outside hutches and while most of them are in the shade, they do still get quite a bit of natural light. My reading led me to believe it was lack of vitamin D that caused problems because it hindered calcium absorption.

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hmm. mine are under a lean-to shed and are also in the shade all the time. i let them out in a pen on rotation, one rabbit for a full day to dig and graze and run around, so they do get at least a little vitamin d. the mini lop doe i posted was raised totally in shade in a carport until i got her, the rex was raised by me on the pen rotation. with the amount of rabbits i have, it takes about two weeks for it to be each rabbit's turn again, so they have about 13 days with no direct sunlight.

i've really only read about house rabbits having vitamin d deficiencies, but now i'm wondering if it's not also a problem in outdoor rabbits. i have UVB lights for my bearded dragon and sprouting seeds (not at the same time lol)...hmm. if i had any kits currently i would do an experiment and see if i can notice a difference in the bone quality of growout rabbits on my normal system vs a few hours a day of UVB treatment. gotta wait til i get moved to start breeding again though