alforddm":1nlw0mxh said:
I won't charge you to much. lol
How to stop a predator???
- Thread starter TheChad
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I won't charge you to much. lol
I wanted to weigh in, for the first time on this thread, with my little bit of background knowledge. I've got 11 years of law enforcement under my belt, and I've worked closely with animal control in those years. I also spent 20 years in dog training, showing and competing with a variety of dogs, and have 4 meatheads in my life now, a Bulldog, Pitbull, Cattle Dog and a Weimaraner.
AND
I have two neighbor dogs that are trying to get to my one outside hutch rabbit, my little Netherland Dwarf. We had yet another incident yesterday where I chased the dogs back to their house, throwing rocks, and yelling like a mad woman. Ugh... those dogs! The owner kicked the Boxer mix when it got back into the yard. Ummm..... You just frickin watched the dogs go into my yard and attack the hutch, my husband and I come out the front door like a SWAT breach, and the dog growl and bark at me as I chased it out of the yard, and your solution is to kick it when it gets back to your yard! Oh my freaking Heaven above.
My constraint in my current situation are that 1) you cannot discharge a firearm in city limits. '"Firearm" means any loaded or unloaded handgun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or other weapon that will expel, is designed to expel or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.' There is some gray area with a paint ball gun, as it is technically gas under pressure, not an explosion. Same with an air rifle. 2) Animal control for the city works M W F 9a-5p. There is just the one part timer. Poor sap. He suggests I live trap the dogs and he'll come pick them up. Prior to the incident yesterday I had been content to just shoo them off, even though we had multiple incidents, and not go through the headache of trapping them, but.... this problem is not going to end well if I keep letting them work on the hutch. 3) AZ law states you can kill anything going after your livestock.
So... Chad I feel for you. I'm sad that you had to kill the one trapped dog. I would have preferred you would have called Animal Control to pick it up. I understand you don't want the dog to go back to the owner, but you must remember, the owner is fined by ACO and the shelter. They cannot be released until they have either been vaccinated or proof of current vaccinations are presented. 90% of people that have loose dogs just don't give enough of a crap to do this, so although they are contacted to recover their dog, they don't. They let it go into the system and its either adopted out, usually to a more responsible owner, or it is put down humanely. Now some people do bail out their dogs, but I can tell you, if the fines are not paid, eventually a warrant is out for their arrest. Its a long process, and often a pain, but, once they're standing in front of the judge, they usually opt to give up the dog, pay the fine, and whatever else keeps them from spending more time in jail. Plus, now they have a record and they're on the radar of their particular district. IF you successfully trap another dog, try calling an ACO. If its the aggressive cur mix, ACO is going to put it down anyway, and now you don't have that liability, because you're really working in an area where you could be found guilty of a crime. I believe Alabama has the same law, you can kill an animal attempting to kill your livestock. However, you are killing a trapped dog. That dog is not actively trying to kill your livestock. You are now killing another person's property, and if they were to come up with something concrete showing it was a prize bear dog or something and worth over $1000 you are talking felony criminal damage. You don't want that. I imagine you like your right to vote and bear arms. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I've gotten to be a bit of a rambler, so I'll leave it at that.
AND
I have two neighbor dogs that are trying to get to my one outside hutch rabbit, my little Netherland Dwarf. We had yet another incident yesterday where I chased the dogs back to their house, throwing rocks, and yelling like a mad woman. Ugh... those dogs! The owner kicked the Boxer mix when it got back into the yard. Ummm..... You just frickin watched the dogs go into my yard and attack the hutch, my husband and I come out the front door like a SWAT breach, and the dog growl and bark at me as I chased it out of the yard, and your solution is to kick it when it gets back to your yard! Oh my freaking Heaven above.
My constraint in my current situation are that 1) you cannot discharge a firearm in city limits. '"Firearm" means any loaded or unloaded handgun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or other weapon that will expel, is designed to expel or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.' There is some gray area with a paint ball gun, as it is technically gas under pressure, not an explosion. Same with an air rifle. 2) Animal control for the city works M W F 9a-5p. There is just the one part timer. Poor sap. He suggests I live trap the dogs and he'll come pick them up. Prior to the incident yesterday I had been content to just shoo them off, even though we had multiple incidents, and not go through the headache of trapping them, but.... this problem is not going to end well if I keep letting them work on the hutch. 3) AZ law states you can kill anything going after your livestock.
So... Chad I feel for you. I'm sad that you had to kill the one trapped dog. I would have preferred you would have called Animal Control to pick it up. I understand you don't want the dog to go back to the owner, but you must remember, the owner is fined by ACO and the shelter. They cannot be released until they have either been vaccinated or proof of current vaccinations are presented. 90% of people that have loose dogs just don't give enough of a crap to do this, so although they are contacted to recover their dog, they don't. They let it go into the system and its either adopted out, usually to a more responsible owner, or it is put down humanely. Now some people do bail out their dogs, but I can tell you, if the fines are not paid, eventually a warrant is out for their arrest. Its a long process, and often a pain, but, once they're standing in front of the judge, they usually opt to give up the dog, pay the fine, and whatever else keeps them from spending more time in jail. Plus, now they have a record and they're on the radar of their particular district. IF you successfully trap another dog, try calling an ACO. If its the aggressive cur mix, ACO is going to put it down anyway, and now you don't have that liability, because you're really working in an area where you could be found guilty of a crime. I believe Alabama has the same law, you can kill an animal attempting to kill your livestock. However, you are killing a trapped dog. That dog is not actively trying to kill your livestock. You are now killing another person's property, and if they were to come up with something concrete showing it was a prize bear dog or something and worth over $1000 you are talking felony criminal damage. You don't want that. I imagine you like your right to vote and bear arms. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I've gotten to be a bit of a rambler, so I'll leave it at that.
SixGun":r3kfnmy3 said:
In Alabama a lot of this type stuff is left up to the counties. In my county, per the ACO and Deputy sheriff, any animal on my property can be killed if aggressive in any way. No matter its situation. The ACO told me I had the right, so I took it. I would mention also that his death was very humane. He was gone instantly thanks to proper placement. Just as humane as my rabbits get. I know the government would always prefer that the government was involved. LOL
olice: I feel for you as well. Almost the same situation, except a I have a few more options. Since you are more regulated, do you all have leash laws? Our county doesn't. That is most likely why they are more open in that area.
Have you spoken to your neighbor about the issue? The electric fence setup is around $70 to $100. Worth every penny. :money:
I did talk with him last night, briefly. I was pretty upset and knew better than to make it much more than a "keep your darn dog on your property please".
As long as the ACO you could dispose of the dog, than so be it. Here it gets sticky, because the law reads "actively harassing or injuring". That means if you see a dog walking down the fenceline, but not near your livestock, you can't take it. This is ranch country. Dogs take down way more calves than coyotes do, and we have a full time USDA agent that hunts coyotes every day to keep the numbers down. Unfortunately, when the USDA steps in to assist ACOs with the stray dog population it always becomes a bit of a public nightmare. They try to only shoot dogs with no collar, and unfortunately sometimes there is a collar under the fur coat that can't be seen from a distance. I know it upsets the agent every time, and he has every legal right to shoot any dog that he feels poses a threat.
I may look at the fencing. The easiest part would be to bring him back inside, but he truly enjoys his huge hutch outside. And he's such a little butt, I have known both times the dogs have been harassing him, not because of noise they make, but because he is running up and down the levels and thumping and I hear it from inside.
I hope you trap the others.... I would just make a quick call to the ACO and double check you're good to go. I would hate for there to be a problem.
As long as the ACO you could dispose of the dog, than so be it. Here it gets sticky, because the law reads "actively harassing or injuring". That means if you see a dog walking down the fenceline, but not near your livestock, you can't take it. This is ranch country. Dogs take down way more calves than coyotes do, and we have a full time USDA agent that hunts coyotes every day to keep the numbers down. Unfortunately, when the USDA steps in to assist ACOs with the stray dog population it always becomes a bit of a public nightmare. They try to only shoot dogs with no collar, and unfortunately sometimes there is a collar under the fur coat that can't be seen from a distance. I know it upsets the agent every time, and he has every legal right to shoot any dog that he feels poses a threat.
I may look at the fencing. The easiest part would be to bring him back inside, but he truly enjoys his huge hutch outside. And he's such a little butt, I have known both times the dogs have been harassing him, not because of noise they make, but because he is running up and down the levels and thumping and I hear it from inside.
I hope you trap the others.... I would just make a quick call to the ACO and double check you're good to go. I would hate for there to be a problem.
