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Baby rabbit with syphilis

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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#16  Unread postby AnnClaire » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:04 am


Wow!!! How much wolf is in that beast? LOL he sure looks like he would munch anything not fast enough to get away!!! Handsome looking!!

I hear you about flying under the radar. Doing the same here, too. The three animal control officers know about the rabbits, but as long as they don't have to notice them I am free to have as many or any kind of animal I want! Of course, the senior officer has known me and my animals for decades and thinks I spoil my animals! Now, if I could just convince the city that miniature cows were not livestock, I think I have enough Bermuda lawn to run a couple of cow/calf pairs in the front and side lawn! LOL Grow my own beef along with the chickens and ducks and rabbits!

My hutches are placed in an "L" shape facing each other, so the sunshades and the rabbits aren't seen through the two sides of my yard that are "open" and the sunshades don't make any noise :)

I had planned on painting, but its been 3 years since I finished the hutches, so painting isn't much of a priority anymore LOL Also, most of the wood I used was scrounged and the frame the cages sit on is 2 x 6/8", so a box of steeples, predrilling and the scrounged cattle panels made a perfect floor for the cages. I do have Silver Foxes, so 12# does plus the 15# wooden nest boxes can be quite heavy and I didn't have the gauge of wire you have. Quite a cleaver solution!!

I do build my own cages and another cleaver solution I got from Rabbit Talk is to take the cut out for the door and bend it into a hayrack for the outside of the cage. The first I saw was bent into a semicircular shape, but I have since bent two straight sides so the hay is held closer to the wall of the cage and this seems to be working better. With it hung on the outside of the cage, and using a garden watering can (plastic actually) I can feed and water without having to open the cages which is a must in the winter around here!!!

My grow out cages are 6' x 30" x 24" and there is a divider made of floor wire that can be raised or lowered. I can generally pull them by myself and they only have to come down for torching between litters, and the breeders cages only 2x per year for torching and they are 24" x 30" x 24".

Right now, I have 7 bucks and 8 brood does and 5 growouts that I am keeping one for breeding. Two of the bucks are going to freezer camp as soon as I see how their first litters grow out :D Now, if only those does would breed for me!

I also have two more cages I need to get built so I have room for the next two brood does I want! LOL I also still have a 9 cage line for growing/quarantine show buns that is empty right now.
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#17  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:18 pm


AnnClaire wrote:Wow!!! How much wolf is in that beast? LOL he sure looks like he would munch anything not fast enough to get away!!! Handsome looking!!


Well thank you so much! I think she's mighty handsome myself but I am also super biased.. :oops: She's my 9 year old little babygirl. :love: Rescued her from a less-than ideal home when she was 5 years of age and she's just blossomed since then. Took 6 months before she would stop submissive peeing the house when my husband looked her way... :roll: In answer to your question, she has VERY little wolf content at roughly 15% -Most of her appearance and traits come from Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute, German Shepherd Dog and Alaskan-type husky (basically those sled racing mutt mixes up north.) I thank my lucky stars I didn't get myself into anything of higher wolf content, after joining the wolfdog community to learn more about these lovely animals I realized I don't really wish to deal with how difficult they can get. Sort of like a Malinois, I love the look of them, but I'll let people who actually know what they are doing to handle such a difficult and amazing dog. :lol: You've got to have the lifestyle for it.

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AnnClaire wrote:I had planned on painting, but its been 3 years since I finished the hutches, so painting isn't much of a priority anymore LOL Also, most of the wood I used was scrounged and the frame the cages sit on is 2 x 6/8", so a box of steeples, predrilling and the scrounged cattle panels made a perfect floor for the cages. I do have Silver Foxes, so 12# does plus the 15# wooden nest boxes can be quite heavy and I didn't have the gauge of wire you have. Quite a cleaver solution!!


I really don't know why we have this thick of wire in a roll, I'm positive I didn't buy it for anything around the house and I have a feeling it was passed down from my husband's grandfather so who knows! I'm just glad I unearthed it from that old toolbox. I don't know how much my hidey-holes weigh but they are definitely heavier than I had originally thought they would be. 1'x1'x2' with some thick plywood, I should weigh them today out of curiosity while I'm deep cleaning the two cages. (EDIT: The wooden hidey-holes are 12lbs each) I know just about all of my brood is sitting at 11lbs not including the babies. I guess if we count all three babies they would weigh about 10lbs in one cage. :P I'd be interested in seeing more of your setup! Do you have pictures posted somewhere on this forum? Or a rabbitry webpage?


AnnClaire wrote:I do build my own cages and another cleaver solution I got from Rabbit Talk is to take the cut out for the door and bend it into a hayrack for the outside of the cage. The first I saw was bent into a semicircular shape, but I have since bent two straight sides so the hay is held closer to the wall of the cage and this seems to be working better. With it hung on the outside of the cage, and using a garden watering can (plastic actually) I can feed and water without having to open the cages which is a must in the winter around here!!!


See, I did that as well but none of the rabbits ever ate from it! The hay would just get old and colorless, so I'd replace it and they'd continue to ignore it. But if I put the hay into their hidey-holes they would munch on it there. Bollocks. I tried putting some tasty things into that area (stuffed a bit of apple or celery in the front for easy access) and they would eat that, then ignore the hay and complain to me that I didn't ever feed them hay. :angry: Pictured with some straw in it and I guess another dog picture. Apparently I don't really have any pictures without those large four-leggers making an appearance.

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AnnClaire wrote: Now, if only those does would breed for me!

I also have two more cages I need to get built so I have room for the next two brood does I want! LOL I also still have a 9 cage line for growing/quarantine show buns that is empty right now.


Uhg, I feel you on that one. I thought two of our other does were pregnant so I ended up selling these current babies mother who was successfully bred (we were replacing her with her daughter anyway) then I learn the two does I thought were prego aren't at all. Which means they have been free-loaders since like, May of 2016. We didn't breed over the summer because of the heat, then once it got cooler they have so far refused to be bred! :evil:

I'd like to build two more cages for the bucks because right now they are living in the minimum cage required by ARBA (4.0 ft²) and the does have a lovely space at 8.0 ft². I'd prefer them all to have as much as the does have but to be honest I'm running out of room and I'd have to create another large wooden enclosure. It'd be a hefty project at this point and I may just wait until the summer to attempt. Until then they get ground time to chase ladies and stretch their legs daily so I don't feel so badly.

-- Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:47 pm --


Clover and D'artagnan are done with their Just-In-Case penicillin treatment and I moved them out of the quarantine cages today, I've also started Cersei and Hodor on their first round.

As I was cleaning out the quarantine cages I noticed a good bit of blood in the waste bin under the doe's cage that wasn't there yesterday.... she's acting 100% fine, bouncing about thrilled to be in her own cage again. Guys, I think she had a miscarriage due to the penicillin treatments. I'd been trying to get her bred about a week (well, really since September...) prior to the start of this whole syphilis Just-In-Case treatment. I stopped trying to breed anyone once I realized I needed to treat them all for the possibility of infection but I feel as though she must have gotten bred! I made sure to stand watch the whole time the doe and buck were running around on the ground for 20 minutes each day and never witnessed a falloff. She hardly ever allowed him to catch her but eventually he would wear her out and would just take it with her butt glued to the ground.

Maybe a false pregnancy? I didn't see anything like lumps of possible babies, just liquid blood so I'm assuming there wasn't anything there to begin with.

Thoughts? Miscarriage or false pregnancy? If either one, when would you suggest trying to get her bred again? How long to wait after the pen treatments?
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#18  Unread postby Prisma » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:57 pm


I've waited as long as 60 days, you don't want to have to go through more shots again. If you're desperate though, quarantine the buck and doe breed after both "appear" clean.

Probably a miscarriage. Babies don't form right when vents involved, hopefully its a fluke and she doesn't really need another round of shots though and you'll have babies with the next breeding.
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#19  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm


Thanks! Thought none of the rabbits showed ANY issue with their vents even the original baby that I treated, she just had some facial concerns and weight loss. After the suggestion that the whole herd could be infected I checked everyone down there and every single bun was clean and healthy, but decided to run them through a round of antibiotics just to be on the safe side and do a deep cleaning of the cages. I'm thinking of it as spring cleaning :lol:

The doe that had the possible miscarry has never had a litter and she's over a year old. Probably about a year and 6 months. I've heard that first time does can more easily have false pregnancies or miscarry.

The only rabbit I ever saw with signs of syphilis is that very first kit pictured. No one else has shown any signs or symptoms.
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#20  Unread postby Prisma » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:23 pm


They may never show a sign and still have it, that's why its so easily skipped over and missed.

Eh older and younger does can both miscarry, think it has more to do with how well genetically bred more than age. I've had younger does from good linage do better than older does of so so linage.

Good luck :)
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#21  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:02 pm


Well it's over! Everyone has gone through a week of injections, and I've deep cleaned all the cages and components! I had initially planned to do a rabbit at a time, but I have multiple quarantine cages and figured, why not do two? So first week I did the three kits, second week I did Clover and D'artagnan, and yesterday was the end of injections for my last two, Hodor and Cersei. Hodor is feeling a little thin so I added black oil sunflower seeds to his feed.

Everyone is back in their own nice clean cages and I've got some happy bunnies. Cersei practically threw herself on top of her hidey-hole box with a sigh of relief. "Home sweet home..."

I modified the boy's boxes (reduced the tops of their boxes) and it actually made the whole space feel bigger. The boys didn't complain about it, instead they bounced all over enjoying the double levels again. The top did extend the whole 2 feet span on the back, but Hodor would poo and pee on the top corner and it would run onto the box in the next pen and just made a nasty mess, this way we if he wants to do that it'll just run onto the floor and into the catch bucket.

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Anyhow, happy rabbits and a happy owner to be done with this mess, lol. Now to pull out the quarantine cages and clean those from top to bottom. At least that can wait until I'm good and ready!
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#22  Unread postby AnnClaire » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:13 am


Apologies for taking so long to get back to you 2crazy, but got caught up with some spinning projects, one of which left me with a hand dyed red LOL

As for photos, well, I'll have to get some new ones! I just realized the last photos I have are from when I was building the hutches!

Glad to hear everyone is through the shots! Hopefully this will have knocked it out!

Nice boxes and good idea on the mod ... but they are gonna pee/poop wherever you *don't* want them to! LOL

Love, love ,love the photo with her head down ... Looks like she's "on" something!

As for your buns not eating the hay from the hay racks, I notice you are using 1" x 1" mesh rather than the 1" x 2" that I use and wonder if that might have something to do with it? You might try trimming one crossbar from one hayrack space to see if that might get them to using them? I also notice that your hay racks are above the j-feeder whereas I hang mine on the side of the cage away from the j-feeder and lower down.

For breeding the doe that might have had a miscarriage, I would suggest you wait the withdrawal time, then breed? So far, I have only needed to dose with a med with a withdrawal time and it happened in the summer when I was not breeding, so didn't actually come into play.

I'll see about getting some photos tomorrow, or maybe Saturday when my girls come to help with spring cleanup :D
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#23  Unread postby Prisma » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:14 am


Yay! That's good news. VD can cause the aborting of kits and infertility too...I completely forgot until reading back over the post and catching the doe possibly aborting. With all clear, should see more kids IF that was the problem causing issues. To happy healthy buns n babies :)
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#24  Unread postby SarniaTricia » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:18 am


Quick Question for 2CrazyFools.....

Do you have "hiddy boxes" for all the rabbits?
(they look nest boxes with roofs)

Also, I'm starting today on a massive rabbitry cleanout..... all the cages come out and get scrubbed clean and returned to place..... (coccidiosis I think, so that is what I am treating everyone for)
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#25  Unread postby 2CrazyFools » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:12 am


AnnClaire wrote:Nice boxes and good idea on the mod ... but they are gonna pee/poop wherever you *don't* want them to! LOL


Right? It's like they try to find the spot I don't want them making messy, "Ah, yes, this will work PERFECTLY." However I think this worked out! See, previously when the tops of the boxes were 1'x2' across the span of the back Hodor's waste would not only go into the next-door pen, it would also slide out the back and completely miss the bucket for catching such deposits. This morning I checked and all waste made it into the bucket! None on the ground outside of his pen! That takes care of one extra step when dumping manure, no more needing to rake it off the floor and shovel into the bucket for transport. :up:

AnnClaire wrote:As for your buns not eating the hay from the hay racks, I notice you are using 1" x 1" mesh rather than the 1" x 2" that I use and wonder if that might have something to do with it? You might try trimming one crossbar from one hayrack space to see if that might get them to using them? I also notice that your hay racks are above the j-feeder whereas I hang mine on the side of the cage away from the j-feeder and lower down.


I actually added the hay feeders back to everyone's pens yesterday and this time put them INSIDE the pens versus outside, and lowered them down next to the feed. I figured once they get used to it down there I may eventually pull it back up above the feeders to reduce waste but so far this is working! I saw Jeri pulling hay from it not long after I re-installed them even though she has plenty of hay in her hidey-hole, and then later D'artagnan. So I'm going to leave them there for awhile and stop filling the hidey-holes with hay so they are forced to check it out and utilize it if they wish. If they still don't seem interested I may go ahead and take your suggestion about the holes and increase the size. Thanks AnnClaire!

AnnClaire wrote:For breeding the doe that might have had a miscarriage, I would suggest you wait the withdrawal time, then breed? So far, I have only needed to dose with a med with a withdrawal time and it happened in the summer when I was not breeding, so didn't actually come into play.

What is the withdrawal time? I did some quick googling and couldn't find anything for rabbits, lots for cattle and swine though.

Prisma wrote:Yay! That's good news. VD can cause the aborting of kits and infertility too...I completely forgot until reading back over the post and catching the doe possibly aborting. With all clear, should see more kids IF that was the problem causing issues. To happy healthy buns n babies :)
Here's to hoping!! :D

SarniaTricia wrote:Do you have "hiddy boxes" for all the rabbits?
(they look nest boxes with roofs)


Yes, the does have 2'x1' and the bucks have 1'x1'. I like having the tops to increase surface area of the pens, and it's nice to lounge on to get off the wire. The bottoms are all open (I started with a few with closed bottoms but have since modified that idea) and once the does are getting close to kindle I put a hock-saver / EZ-mat / (dollar tree sink drain mat) under the box before adding straw/hay to help with excess hay loss but still allow breathability and drainage. Since the mats are 1'x1' I'll put two for the does boxes. The boys boxes don't really need anything like that since they aren't kindling in there, lol. In the pictures they have the kitchen sink mat under the boxes with a little hay since at the time I hadn't installed the hay feeders inside yet. D'artagnan's is there now so his mat and hay is gone from the box, but Hodor doesn't have a hay feeder in yet so he's chewing on his bedding. I actually saw him laying half inside, half outside with his big belly getting bisected by the baby-scraper while chomping on hay :lol: Weirdo. The bucks boxes have the baby scraper just in case I have to use a box for a doe, and actually Jeri and her siblings were born in a 1'x1' buck-box. So that helped them not tumble out onto the wire prior to me taking them inside.

I like the boxes 100% of the time for their own sense of security, if a loud noise goes off or a cat comes prowling about they can race into their boxes and feel a little bit safer about life. Plus, Clover practically LIVES in her box, I hardly ever see her outside of it regardless of temperature... she bloody loves that thing, lol. (Old picture with bottom still attached)
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Re: Baby rabbit with syphilis

Post Number:#26  Unread postby AnnClaire » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:20 am


Hey, trading ideas is what this site is all about! Since you are hanging the hay racks inside, trimming out a crossbar from the hay rack won't leave a hole in your cage wall :)

As for withdrawal time on medications, my vet always used the cattle withdrawal time. You might want to ask your vet and see what they recommend. Of the three veterinarians in my rural town, only one will even treat rabbits! LOL
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