Baby rabbit with syphilis

I thought I would share what we went through with a kit.

The litter was a healthy litter of 8 kits, but at around week 3 I noticed one kit wasn't gaining weight like the others, felt thin and had a wet mouth. Her nose was dry but she was slobbery and the next day it wasn't any better so I knew it wasn't just her drinking. I was able to contact a vet on Facebook and after sending her pictures of what was going on she told me that it was syphilis and prescribed me to inject her under the skin (but not in the muscle) with 0.1 mg of penicillin each day for a week (warmed to room temp), which I can find at Tractor Supply under the label "Dura Pen." How to give a subcutaneous injection

I quarantined the little 4 week old rabbit in the guest bedroom and proceeded to play with her way too much, lol. She always forgave me after the injections though she wasn't happy and I had to have my husband hold her for it. She gained weight steadily once I started treating her and after a week I let her go back to her family. She is now 8 weeks old and gaining weight normally. They didn't have the small $14 bottle of Dura Pen though, so I ended up purchasing the $30 bottle instead. I now have a $30 meat mutt, lol, at least she's sweet.

Thought I would share with pictures for future reference. She never got "sores" on her mouth, just wet/slobbery, so we did catch it early. Her energy levels always appeared normal, maybe a little sluggish the first day of injections but always took a few moments to race around the guest bedroom before hopping into my lap to sleep.


First day noticing possible issue:


Starting treatment:


Playing with her way too much... she just loved my body heat so I often brought her out while we were watching the telly.


Happy healthy 7 week old, overly social girl. <3


The Penicillin we used:


Video of the rabbit at about halfway through the week of injections:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKVIm_nBsT0&t=3s[/youtube]

Shouldn't you have treated the whole litter?
I am just wondering how your bunny contracted syphilis?

Is it something some herds carry that only appear when a rabbit is stressed?

Thanks

Right? That was my very first thought, "How did my 3 week old rabbit get SYPHILIS?!" Apparently according to the vet I was talking to most rabbits are carriers or something but it only surfaces occasionally and to not bother treating anyone else unless they show signs of it. The lady mentioned it would have been passed on through the mother. Which, makes sense I suppose if you think about it, rabbits are a very sexual breed and aren't very vigilant about strapping on a condom... :|

I will add that the vet lady did not mention quarantining the rabbit, though I do not know if it was because I already had the rabbit in quarantine or if it wouldn't matter anyway since they are all carriers? All that information is in my FB messenger and I've been taking a hiatus from that addiction -my account is going to stay deactivated until May.

The mother, the father (and any does he's bred) along with the litter (and any other kits he's sired) are infected. Rabbits do NOT continuously carry VD. They catch it, may never show symptoms until stressed THEN boom. OR the infected never show but when bred the other rabbit does or like yours the baby does.

If the person really thinks all rabbits carry it, they need to do some research. There are MANY posts on RT about it and how its passed. They did give you the correct treatment though. Just be sure to do the whole regime or it won't matter and you'll end up with a pen g resistant strand.

However, you NEED to treat ALL of them. Especially since you put her back. You just reinfected her too. Unless you treat all of them at the same time, clean, and don't reintroduce to the infection you'll only perpetuate the problem. :/ I wish they'd told you that.

Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":26t9jwjd said:

However, you NEED to treat ALL of them. Especially since you put her back. You just reinfected her too. Unless you treat all of them at the same time, clean, and don't reintroduce to the infection you'll only perpetuate the problem. :/ I wish they'd told you that.

Click to expand...

Ugh, that's incredibly frustrating! :evil: I specifically asked about that because this is a baby, drinking from the same teats as the rest of them, from the same infected mother. Oh well, no use getting worked up about the past, just need to work toward the future.

So, I should go ahead and treat all of them (as well as the little one again) and disinfect the cages, but what about the rest of the herd? I've got two other does and one other buck not connected to the babies, should I treat them as well and disinfect their areas too? I let the littles down to the ground space to run around daily so what about that area? Is there a time period where VD dies out in the oxygen? (AKA, keep bunnies off the ground for X amount of days?) I'll look more into this when I get home this evening, I wish I had found this forum a month or two ago. :|

Thank you RRR!

Pictured: Pens and ground space

As long as they have not been on a common surface (I picked it up from a show once so it HAD to come from the coops and/or judging table itself ugh), should be OK. Dirt time where it will die, I do not know.

If they have been in zero contact (no breeding, no housing, not on same floor/feeders/waters) should not be infected. However that also includes handling, if you pulled out an infected, handled the other then its a possibility. Might be considered low, but it might be the difference between have and not have.

If you have not treated them all, yes. All would need treatment and pens cleaned respectively to get rid of it. There is a chance of having a pen g resistant strain, but hopefully not. There's a lot of possibilities

2CrazyFools.... Love your Rabbitry set up... it's dreamy..

I wonder if raking Hydrated Lime on the ground would help with "sanitizing" the ground?
I hope someone here will pipe in on this as I show my bunnies and would like to know how to combat something like this if it becomes an issue.

I checked everyone's vent areas just to make sure they weren't showing ... "issues" down there and thankfully everyone looked nice and healthy. So that's the good news at least! Not looking forward to administering the injections to my herd though, anyone have a good resource for doing it without help? (IE: One person injections?) The ideal time of day for me (and the buns) is around 3-4pm, and my husband doesn't normally get home until late and then he sure as hell doesn't want to be messing with rabbits and needles (he's very needle shy, almost puked when he had to hold the little baby bunny for me the first go around!) So if y'all have any resources about that, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":5n2yfpia said:

As long as they have not been on a common surface (I picked it up from a show once so it HAD to come from the coops and/or judging table itself ugh), should be OK. Dirt time where it will die, I do not know.

Click to expand...

I've been reading more on syphilis and it looks the bacteria that cause syphilis infections are only able to survive outside of the body momentarily before they are no longer able to transfect due to bacteria death. So I'm curious as to why or how you were able to pick it up from a show! :shock: However this does make me feel better about the common ground area and I think I'll "disinfect" the area with a bleach/water solution (there's no grass growing there anymore anyway) and then rinse the soil down with a good bit of water after that's set for about an hour. Then I'll keep all hoppities ( :bunnyhop: ) off the ground while going through the treatments. I've got the needles ordered and plenty of penicillin for multiple herds so I'm just about set. I recently made a bunch of new cages for grow-out pens that haven't been utilized yet so one will work well for "quarantine" of the rabbit I'm treating while I disinfect their main cage. 0.1cc / lb seems to be pretty common and it jives with what the initial vet lady told me to administer to Qwerty when she was sick. I feel badly she has to go through that again but I'll apologize with apples...

Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":5n2yfpia said:

If they have been in zero contact (no breeding, no housing, not on same floor/feeders/waters) should not be infected. However that also includes handling, if you pulled out an infected, handled the other then its a possibility. Might be considered low, but it might be the difference between have and not have.

Click to expand...

Yeah... I have to treat them all, lol. Not only have they all been on the ground space for exercise just about daily, I handle them all daily as well. What good are sinking all this money in to these cute hoppities if you can't pet them all the time too?

SarniaTricia":5n2yfpia said:

2CrazyFools.... Love your Rabbitry set up... it's dreamy..

Click to expand...

Thank you Sarnia! I couldn't find any hutches/cages I liked so I built my own to fit the area I had, lol. I made them too tall but I'm sure the rabbits don't mind the extra head room. (2' tall) We put it in the coolest area of the yard under the trees to combat the horrid summer heat. The reason we have privacy fence around it is that I have a dog with a very high prey drive and she would very easily rip through the thin cage material and have herself some rabbit for supper. In fact, she has eaten through privacy fence panels so we have electric fence wire running around the rabbit area! Rabbitry Fort Knox.


<br /><br /> -- Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:16 pm -- <br /><br /> Turns out its much easier to make a rabbit-burrito out of the less docile rabbits (scared and stop moving around...) than it is to wrap up the babies in a towel because they are like, "What are you doing? Where are the treats? Hey, stop. Let me out. No I'm not going to cooperate, I aint' scared of you!" Uuuuuhggg.... no... work with me, little wigglies.

Anyway, the three babies have taken their first antibiotic injection of 7. Qwerty, the one I had dosed previously, was naturally the Star Pupil. According to my planner I'll be doing injections all month long, but by March the entire herd, hutches, and area should be 100% syphilis clean and clear!

That's good. Unfortunately from my experience while it doesn't survive long if its not cleaned up after, the rabbit in question at the show was judged and neither the table/coop OR judge washed after ugh, it can transfer. Its not going to live for days, but as long as its rather quick like that, it will.

I hope it gets rid of it for good there! Best of luck.

Rebel.Rose.Rabbitry":1d7zt3ik said:

Its not going to live for days, but as long as its rather quick like that, it will.

Click to expand...

Oh! That does make sense, gosh how aggravating to come back from a show with it!

Day 2 of treatment for the little buns and they did much better with the whole "bun-burrito" idea for a one person administration of penicillin. I also took their empty cage out, feeder, water bottles, etc... rinsed it all off with a high power spray of tap water to get the crud off, then used a kitchen scrub-brush and thoroughly scrubbed everything including that 4'x2'x2' wire cage with a bleach and water mixture. Let that dry out in the sun for about an hour and then came back rinsing it down with some more water and then did a vinegar / water scrub-down. Now I'm leaving the cage and components out to dry in the sun for the week the kits are getting poked with the needle. Once they get their last treatment they'll have a sparkling cage to go back to. Until then it's the cardboard box filled with hay inside the grow-out pen, lol.

Then I suppose I'll do the two does next... but it is nice to break up the whole "spring cleaning" of the cages/components. I'm going a little overkill with both bleach and vinegar, then the sun for a week, but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. The way I'm looking at it is that it's been awhile since the cages have had a deep cleaning, so this is basically a kick in the bum.

good job tackling... don't forget to turn those cages regularly so they get the full uv exposure.

For a more thorough cleaning where you can forego the bleach and vinegar cleaning, you can get a hand held propane torch cylinder from the local hardware store (get a nozzle too) and simply torch the cages, killing all kinds of nasties. I now do mine 2x per year after a nasty bout of coccidia last year.

Also, bleach is Not recommended around rabbits, but the vinegar and UV rays from the sun do a good job on certain nasties.

As for preventative at a show, take a vinegar/water mixture in a spray bottle and paper towels, spray the towel and swab your hole on the judging table before placing your rabbit. (If you spray the paper towel before you take your rabbit out of your show cage, you will have one hand for the bun and one for disinfecting the judges hole.) Once you get your bun back to your area after each judging, spray a new paper towel and wipe your bun down all over so nothing is transferred.

ladysown":2eem94zh said:

good job tackling... don't forget to turn those cages regularly so they get the full uv exposure.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ladysown! I actually have been turning the cage and components daily. I don't "think" it's necessary due to the bacterial death rate for syphilis..... but.... just in case.... lol.

AnnClaire":2eem94zh said:

For a more thorough cleaning where you can forego the bleach and vinegar cleaning, you can get a hand held propane torch cylinder from the local hardware store (get a nozzle too) and simply torch the cages, killing all kinds of nasties. I now do mine 2x per year after a nasty bout of coccidia last year.

Click to expand...

Ah, I had thought about that! I am a property manager/house flipper so I have a ton of tools -propane torch included, but I completely forgot that I had read about doing that by the time I pulled the cage out. I'll keep that in mind next week when I deep clean the ladies cages.

AnnClaire":2eem94zh said:

Also, bleach is Not recommended around rabbits, but the vinegar and UV rays from the sun do a good job on certain nasties.

Click to expand...

Bleach has a very short "dangerous" period, as it evaporates and simply leaves behind the chloride ions. There is an issue if you are bleaching enclosed areas with life-forms (rabbits) to inhale the gasses that are evaporating, but as far as using as a disinfectant it spontaneously decomposes, particularly in the presence of light. Once it reacts, the by-products are NaCl and O2 (plus whatever got oxidized). After a short period of time, any residues left behind by bleach will be completely safe. Therefor you should not use any bleach water solution you've made after a few hours (longer I suppose if it's in a sealed container such as a spray bottle) because it has broken down into salts and water. I had a large bottle of bleach that I accidentally left the cap off for some time and dang thing was useless after about a week. -_-

Scott Curriden of Scripps Research Environmental Health and Safety ([url=https://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20060213/bleach.html said:

https://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_ ... leach.html[/url])":2eem94zh]While bleach can be powerful, Curriden notes it has a kinder, gentler side. "What do bleach and the beach have in common?" he asks. "Salt water—liquid bleach starts as salt water and degrades into salt water. When using bleach for disinfection, you want to make sure you're not using salt water."

Click to expand...

When dissolved in water it slowly decomposes, releasing sodium ions, chloride ions, and hydroxyl radicals:
NaClO + H2O → Na+ + Cl− + 2 HO•
These hydroxyl radicals can oxidize organic compounds or self-react to form water and oxygen:
R-CH2-OH + 4 HO• → R-COOH + 3 H2O
4 HO• → 2 H2O + O2(dissolved or gas)
And of course, NaCl is your simple table salt, lol.

This is why people recommend adding it to the soaking of seeds for starting fodder to combat the mold, after less than 24 hours it's harmless (in the case of fodder you're rinsing it out with fresh water within 8-12 hours, then watering it daily until adequate growth). Also, if any of y'all have fish, it is recommended to let your tap water sit out for 24 hours (or less actually, seems to be a debated topic though 24 hours is the commonly agreed upon max) for the bleach/chlorine to evaporate and become safe for your little fishies to swim in.

However, bleach rapidly reacts with anything it can possibly oxidize and it can corrode certain metals (such as my cages...) which is one of the reasons why I followed the bleach wash with a water spray from the hose and then a vinegar solution rinse down to remove any remaining corrosive agents.

Just my 2 cents on bleach.

AnnClaire":2eem94zh said:

As for preventative at a show, take a vinegar/water mixture in a spray bottle and paper towels, spray the towel and swab your hole on the judging table before placing your rabbit. (If you spray the paper towel before you take your rabbit out of your show cage, you will have one hand for the bun and one for disinfecting the judges hole.) Once you get your bun back to your area after each judging, spray a new paper towel and wipe your bun down all over so nothing is transferred.

Click to expand...

That's really good advice, thank you AnnClaire! Personally, I don't "think" I'll be getting into rabbit shows... I feel like I'd enjoy attending one but there's never any happening in my town, I'd have to drive 3 hours just to be a spectator. I'm really just breeding them for my own consumption, lol, I'm very much enjoying these little guys and while I've been pouring money into them I don't think I'm quite that far down the rabbit hole as it were. :lol: Give it time... I hear these guys are like an addiction and then I'll be looking back up this advice as a preventative measure.



Shot #4 this morning before I head out, they're being good little troopers about it. I did find that wrapping them up in towels to be bulkier and harder to wrap properly, but wrapping them up in a stretchy t-shirt works REALLY well! Not sure about the larger rabbits, I may try to get them to go into the t-shirts with their heads out of the neck hole (or a sleeve?) and then wrap tightly. Not sure yet, I'll have to play around with it once the 3-4 lb babies are through being poked and prodded. They sure are enjoying the, "Lollipop after the doctor's appointment" though

-- Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:59 pm --

Update: Last day of treatment for the wee hoppities! :bunnyhop:

I decided with an 80 degree day coming on Friday I may as well treat two rabbits, Clover (pictured) and D'artagnan, and deep clean both their cages in a few days. So I gave them their first rounds of injections (11lb rabbits, 1.1ml each) and put them into their individual quarantines. Neither one is particularly pleased about their change of venue but I promised it would only be a week and they'd be back to their personal cages... which did nothing to lessen their glares. :?

The large adults were easier to give their injections because they just sort of hunkered down and went to a special place in their minds (I'm assuming, lol) while I pulled up their skin and jabbed them with a needle. I did end up covering Clover's face with a spare t-shirt to keep her calmer, she's prone to sudden dashes.

Yeah, bunnies are like potato chips, ya can't have just one! LOL

As for the bleach, it is the fumes that get to me, so, even tho I don't bleach with animals around, better safe than sorry, ya know?

Your place looks similar to mine ... hutches to hold the individual cages. I built two-cage hutches and by the time I got the roof on and shingled it takes two to horse them around!!

Instead of tarps for the backside, I staple up tyvek feed bags with the white inside faced to the outside and find that the white and being under a mature tree is pretty good in the heat of the summer! As for the winter, they make good wind breaks too! Then I realized that I needed sunshades for certain times of the year, so I installed a 1x across the front under the roof and stapled up more feed bags LOL These just blow in the wind but they don't bother the buns

Generally, the cats are about the only varmits that bother my buns (need another good guard dog!!) as I find cages knocked all cattywampus in the mornings sometimes. Grrrrr

I also used sections of cattle panel cut to fit for the cages to sit on the hutches, what did you use? My goal was to have no contact between bunny excrement and the wood frame of the hutches. I also placed concrete pavers under the legs of the hutches to keep them out of the mud and can sweep poo off. Since I didn't use pressure treated, rot is a concern for me ... still want to paint the wood, but health has kept me from getting that done

AnnClaire":14cx6cy3 said:

As for the bleach, it is the fumes that get to me, so, even tho I don't bleach with animals around, better safe than sorry, ya know?

Click to expand...

I completely understand that! I'm not bleaching anything around them though, since I have the metal wire cages removable I just pulled the whole thing out to the other side of the backyard where we have part of a concrete driveway and I deep cleaned it over there. Open air and far away from small lungs. Pictured with my dog checking it out long after was sun-dried, lol. "Why aren't the bite sized hopping meatballs in there?"

AnnClaire":14cx6cy3 said:

Your place looks similar to mine ... hutches to hold the individual cages. I built two-cage hutches and by the time I got the roof on and shingled it takes two to horse them around!!

Instead of tarps for the backside, I staple up tyvek feed bags with the white inside faced to the outside and find that the white and being under a mature tree is pretty good in the heat of the summer! As for the winter, they make good wind breaks too! Then I realized that I needed sunshades for certain times of the year, so I installed a 1x across the front under the roof and stapled up more feed bags LOL These just blow in the wind but they don't bother the buns

Click to expand...

Yeah, they sure are heavy beasts! I did use some pressure treated wood (rabbits do not have access to the wooden frame) which makes these bloody things even HEAVIER! Goodness... :x I like the idea of re-using the feed bags instead of the tarps (even if they are quite cheap at $4 each) but I'm pretty sure if I had feed bags flapping in the wind the neighbors would complain. Backyard meat rabbits... best to stay under the radar as much as possible. :lol:

AnnClaire":14cx6cy3 said:

I also used sections of cattle panel cut to fit for the cages to sit on the hutches, what did you use? My goal was to have no contact between bunny excrement and the wood frame of the hutches. I also placed concrete pavers under the legs of the hutches to keep them out of the mud and can sweep poo off. Since I didn't use pressure treated, rot is a concern for me ... still want to paint the wood, but health has kept me from getting that done

Click to expand...

Cattle panel? That's a smart idea! I have three thick wires per cage strung across the boards, tethered by screws on the sides that the cages set on. You can see it in this picture below, they've been there for a year now and still holding strong, not sure what gauge... it's one of those things where I rummaged around in the garage until I stumbled onto it, "Hey! This'll work!"

Even though most of the hutch is created from pressure treated 2x4s, I also have the legs sitting on pavers/bricks so it's not direct contact to the earth. I hear that painting your wood actually does the opposite of protecting it from rot, and instead prohibits any moisture that does get in from easily evaporating out. (I was thinking about painting our picket fence until I read that's not recommended due to increased risk of rot.) At the very least it's something to look into prior to stressing yourself over not being able to slap a coat onto your hutches, maybe it's a good thing you haven't been able to get around to it yet?

Wow!!! How much wolf is in that beast? LOL he sure looks like he would munch anything not fast enough to get away!!! Handsome looking!!

I hear you about flying under the radar. Doing the same here, too. The three animal control officers know about the rabbits, but as long as they don't have to notice them I am free to have as many or any kind of animal I want! Of course, the senior officer has known me and my animals for decades and thinks I spoil my animals! Now, if I could just convince the city that miniature cows were not livestock, I think I have enough Bermuda lawn to run a couple of cow/calf pairs in the front and side lawn! LOL Grow my own beef along with the chickens and ducks and rabbits!

My hutches are placed in an "L" shape facing each other, so the sunshades and the rabbits aren't seen through the two sides of my yard that are "open" and the sunshades don't make any noise

I had planned on painting, but its been 3 years since I finished the hutches, so painting isn't much of a priority anymore LOL Also, most of the wood I used was scrounged and the frame the cages sit on is 2 x 6/8", so a box of steeples, predrilling and the scrounged cattle panels made a perfect floor for the cages. I do have Silver Foxes, so 12# does plus the 15# wooden nest boxes can be quite heavy and I didn't have the gauge of wire you have. Quite a cleaver solution!!

I do build my own cages and another cleaver solution I got from Rabbit Talk is to take the cut out for the door and bend it into a hayrack for the outside of the cage. The first I saw was bent into a semicircular shape, but I have since bent two straight sides so the hay is held closer to the wall of the cage and this seems to be working better. With it hung on the outside of the cage, and using a garden watering can (plastic actually) I can feed and water without having to open the cages which is a must in the winter around here!!!

My grow out cages are 6' x 30" x 24" and there is a divider made of floor wire that can be raised or lowered. I can generally pull them by myself and they only have to come down for torching between litters, and the breeders cages only 2x per year for torching and they are 24" x 30" x 24".

Right now, I have 7 bucks and 8 brood does and 5 growouts that I am keeping one for breeding. Two of the bucks are going to freezer camp as soon as I see how their first litters grow out Now, if only those does would breed for me!

I also have two more cages I need to get built so I have room for the next two brood does I want! LOL I also still have a 9 cage line for growing/quarantine show buns that is empty right now.

AnnClaire":1ap57tq3 said:

Wow!!! How much wolf is in that beast? LOL he sure looks like he would munch anything not fast enough to get away!!! Handsome looking!!

Click to expand...

Well thank you so much! I think she's mighty handsome myself but I am also super biased.. She's my 9 year old little babygirl. Rescued her from a less-than ideal home when she was 5 years of age and she's just blossomed since then. Took 6 months before she would stop submissive peeing the house when my husband looked her way... :roll: In answer to your question, she has VERY little wolf content at roughly 15% -Most of her appearance and traits come from Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute, German Shepherd Dog and Alaskan-type husky (basically those sled racing mutt mixes up north.) I thank my lucky stars I didn't get myself into anything of higher wolf content, after joining the wolfdog community to learn more about these lovely animals I realized I don't really wish to deal with how difficult they can get. Sort of like a Malinois, I love the look of them, but I'll let people who actually know what they are doing to handle such a difficult and amazing dog. :lol: You've got to have the lifestyle for it.

AnnClaire":1ap57tq3 said:

I had planned on painting, but its been 3 years since I finished the hutches, so painting isn't much of a priority anymore LOL Also, most of the wood I used was scrounged and the frame the cages sit on is 2 x 6/8", so a box of steeples, predrilling and the scrounged cattle panels made a perfect floor for the cages. I do have Silver Foxes, so 12# does plus the 15# wooden nest boxes can be quite heavy and I didn't have the gauge of wire you have. Quite a cleaver solution!!

Click to expand...

I really don't know why we have this thick of wire in a roll, I'm positive I didn't buy it for anything around the house and I have a feeling it was passed down from my husband's grandfather so who knows! I'm just glad I unearthed it from that old toolbox. I don't know how much my hidey-holes weigh but they are definitely heavier than I had originally thought they would be. 1'x1'x2' with some thick plywood, I should weigh them today out of curiosity while I'm deep cleaning the two cages. (EDIT: The wooden hidey-holes are 12lbs each) I know just about all of my brood is sitting at 11lbs not including the babies. I guess if we count all three babies they would weigh about 10lbs in one cage. I'd be interested in seeing more of your setup! Do you have pictures posted somewhere on this forum? Or a rabbitry webpage?

AnnClaire":1ap57tq3 said:

I do build my own cages and another cleaver solution I got from Rabbit Talk is to take the cut out for the door and bend it into a hayrack for the outside of the cage. The first I saw was bent into a semicircular shape, but I have since bent two straight sides so the hay is held closer to the wall of the cage and this seems to be working better. With it hung on the outside of the cage, and using a garden watering can (plastic actually) I can feed and water without having to open the cages which is a must in the winter around here!!!

Click to expand...

See, I did that as well but none of the rabbits ever ate from it! The hay would just get old and colorless, so I'd replace it and they'd continue to ignore it. But if I put the hay into their hidey-holes they would munch on it there. Bollocks. I tried putting some tasty things into that area (stuffed a bit of apple or celery in the front for easy access) and they would eat that, then ignore the hay and complain to me that I didn't ever feed them hay. :angry: Pictured with some straw in it and I guess another dog picture. Apparently I don't really have any pictures without those large four-leggers making an appearance.

AnnClaire":1ap57tq3 said:

Now, if only those does would breed for me!

I also have two more cages I need to get built so I have room for the next two brood does I want! LOL I also still have a 9 cage line for growing/quarantine show buns that is empty right now.

Click to expand...

Uhg, I feel you on that one. I thought two of our other does were pregnant so I ended up selling these current babies mother who was successfully bred (we were replacing her with her daughter anyway) then I learn the two does I thought were prego aren't at all. Which means they have been free-loaders since like, May of 2016. We didn't breed over the summer because of the heat, then once it got cooler they have so far refused to be bred! :evil:

I'd like to build two more cages for the bucks because right now they are living in the minimum cage required by ARBA (4.0 ft²) and the does have a lovely space at 8.0 ft². I'd prefer them all to have as much as the does have but to be honest I'm running out of room and I'd have to create another large wooden enclosure. It'd be a hefty project at this point and I may just wait until the summer to attempt. Until then they get ground time to chase ladies and stretch their legs daily so I don't feel so badly.

-- Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:47 pm --

Clover and D'artagnan are done with their Just-In-Case penicillin treatment and I moved them out of the quarantine cages today, I've also started Cersei and Hodor on their first round.

As I was cleaning out the quarantine cages I noticed a good bit of blood in the waste bin under the doe's cage that wasn't there yesterday.... she's acting 100% fine, bouncing about thrilled to be in her own cage again. Guys, I think she had a miscarriage due to the penicillin treatments. I'd been trying to get her bred about a week (well, really since September...) prior to the start of this whole syphilis Just-In-Case treatment. I stopped trying to breed anyone once I realized I needed to treat them all for the possibility of infection but I feel as though she must have gotten bred! I made sure to stand watch the whole time the doe and buck were running around on the ground for 20 minutes each day and never witnessed a falloff. She hardly ever allowed him to catch her but eventually he would wear her out and would just take it with her butt glued to the ground.

Maybe a false pregnancy? I didn't see anything like lumps of possible babies, just liquid blood so I'm assuming there wasn't anything there to begin with.

Thoughts? Miscarriage or false pregnancy? If either one, when would you suggest trying to get her bred again? How long to wait after the pen treatments?

I've waited as long as 60 days, you don't want to have to go through more shots again. If you're desperate though, quarantine the buck and doe breed after both "appear" clean.

Probably a miscarriage. Babies don't form right when vents involved, hopefully its a fluke and she doesn't really need another round of shots though and you'll have babies with the next breeding.

Thanks! Thought none of the rabbits showed ANY issue with their vents even the original baby that I treated, she just had some facial concerns and weight loss. After the suggestion that the whole herd could be infected I checked everyone down there and every single bun was clean and healthy, but decided to run them through a round of antibiotics just to be on the safe side and do a deep cleaning of the cages. I'm thinking of it as spring cleaning :lol:

The doe that had the possible miscarry has never had a litter and she's over a year old. Probably about a year and 6 months. I've heard that first time does can more easily have false pregnancies or miscarry.

The only rabbit I ever saw with signs of syphilis is that very first kit pictured. No one else has shown any signs or symptoms.

They may never show a sign and still have it, that's why its so easily skipped over and missed.

Eh older and younger does can both miscarry, think it has more to do with how well genetically bred more than age. I've had younger does from good linage do better than older does of so so linage.

Good luck