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I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same..

Discussion of specific breeds, breed standards and selection criteria for purebreds.
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Re: I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same

Post Number:#16  Unread postby akane » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:31 am


I don't know your genetics knowledge. Some people are great at learning the letter abbreviations and how they impact color and some need to learn by color group because it makes no sense to them. You can find a useful chart at http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ge ... pes-chart/ and some links to the basic genes listed there. The color names can be searched but they will vary in some breeds. Often due to coat type modifying the appearance despite the same color genetics (rex is castor, satin I think is copper, etc...) and sometimes because of a special color gene like silver that covers all colors of that breed or breed group. There are further links in one of the stickies at the top of the forum sections. Heritage is not very important in this situation and many of them. In rabbits what you see is what you have. If it looks like x breed you can show it as that and if it doesn't you can't even if the parents are both called that breed. The background is only useful in knowing hidden genes like a black rabbit can carry dilute and make blue but you'd have no idea unless you knew it had a dilute parent or after it produced dilute offpsring with another rabbit that is or carries dilute. If you don't cross 2 dilutes you may never know the black could make blues. Different colors are approved per breed so sometimes that can narrow things but all rabbits can be every color. It's just more or less likely you'll find something in the various sizes. Also there are fur types beyond the obvious like rex, satin, or long haired breeds. The way the coat returns to shape when rubbed backward is called various things such as flyback or rollback. It will impact how the pelt feels. Good rollback fur is harder to get and will be found in breeds like the chinchillas and american sables created from chinchillas should have it but after near extinction the breed was crossed out to flyback fur and mostly lost their rollback. Many of these more minor coat types were originally found in breeds for pelts but when they lost favor to the plain old white NZ and cali they become less common and get crossed out like the american sables. It can be hard to recover the true fur type and color of an older breed but it's something to keep in mind when you research what your rabbits can produce and what you want to achieve so you can choose new additions to get your stock closer to your goals. A mixed breed american chinchilla might still have thick, roll back fur that has benefits depending what it was crossed with or if the offspring were crossed back to the chinchilla parent. I had some cinnamon x american chinchilla I was going to use to recover the coat of the american sables when I fell ill and moved away from the town my mom's stable and the rabbits were in.

Agouti colors are far more complicated. Each hair is made of multiple color bands and you can widen or narrow these bands breeding to other colors so you modify the agouti. You can have a very red chestnut or a very dark chestnut and a bright red, lighter red, or browner (dirty) red... etc... Since pelt color is a major factor you may want to learn what impact some colors have on agouti colors and how to improve them. It is much simpler if you pick a small group of similar colors to work with when aiming for a standardized color but if you don't care you can breed whatever you want and take the variety for good and bad.
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Re: I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same

Post Number:#17  Unread postby mygoldendoe » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:25 am


That is for the links I'll go check them out
Right now I'm just breeding the 4 to see what I get out of them. Them the other two are to ensure I keep up a larger meat size up as we go. After it seems a bit consistent average, and I choose to change, I will. I just thought with a blue male they would and them have blue/grey in their females patches that they'd all turn out mostly blues or greys. But I'm not really going for any standards here. I just want a wide variety to work for tanning crafts, which I think I'll get. I was just mainly worried not knowing their heritage, if i could get me smaller rabbits in there. Then learn identifiers to ensure I got good stock, But since I just got the two pure line NZ I'm not worried about it anymore.

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Re: I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same

Post Number:#18  Unread postby akane » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:55 pm


Not really how it works. Blue does not make a majority of blues most of the time unless you are breeding 2 blues and other "grey" colors may be entirely unrelated like chinchilla or like putting something such as steel or silver genes on top of other colors. One parent that is not blue may not make any blue or grey colors. It might make all black or the more brownish agouti version of black which is chestnut. Sometimes really random stuff comes out when you don't know the background. Like chocolates popping up even in rabbits with an 8-10generation pedigree of all black and blue based color. I had 1 random harlequin kit out of my rex based meat mutts before and never repeated. That's a rabbit with black and red patches. Unless you add other genes to it and then you can get different color patches. I always liked magpies which are black and white patched. With NZ red, chestnut, steel, and rew (red eye white) are most common results but a rew nz parent might throw all chestnuts on every color of rabbit you pair it with except a few that guarantee something else is possible because they impact the same gene location as the rew. From the same color pairing you could also get a rainbow of those colors, self versions of those colors, dilutes of those colors, or really random things like harlequin which can use 1 red gene to create it so a red paired with a harlequin carrier (that can look like any color) results in a 50% chance of harlequin.

and rabbits are simple compared to some animals lol
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Re: I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same

Post Number:#19  Unread postby mygoldendoe » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:48 am


Yeah iv learned alot with the 2 rabbit sites I use. (This one not so much bc it makes me log in every 3minutes or when I navigate to a new page and gets annoying after awhile.) I wish dad had gone over breeding and genetics when he raised his but I guess that's more my doing than his as I had no interest in seeing them after his bit me lol his were mostly blues and chocolate colored & he never bred for any standards either. We're all meat mutts around our super small town.

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Re: I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same

Post Number:#20  Unread postby SarniaTricia » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:41 pm


mygoldendoe wrote:Yeah iv learned alot with the 2 rabbit sites I use. (This one not so much bc it makes me log in every 3minutes or when I navigate to a new page and gets annoying after awhile.) I wish dad had gone over breeding and genetics when he raised his but I guess that's more my doing than his as I had no interest in seeing them after his bit me lol his were mostly blues and chocolate colored & he never bred for any standards either. We're all meat mutts around our super small town.


I had a big discussion with a Rex breeder friend of mine, about standard. (She Shows)
Although you are breeding for meat and pelts, you should be evaluating your "keepers" based on the standard for meat/commercial rabbits.
WHY? (I'm glad you asked)
Because the standard is designed for evaluating a rabbit's meat potential.
You want:
Fast growth
lots of meat
good recovery with your does for rebreeding

Posing up your rabbits gives a "Comparable" type to look at.
(I often photograph the rabbits so I can take a good look at them and their potential)
Also, start posing them as kits at about 3-4 weeks old... that way they are really comfortable posing for you.

Here is a site I found a while ago that helped me really "see" what I was looking for with "keepers":
http://hillriserabbitry.blogspot.ca/201 ... bbits.html

Also, I have been working on tri mixed meat rabbits and hope that 2017 sees me with a solid tri program in place... love the multi coloured pelts.
Breeding Rabbits for Meat and Pelts...
Working towards a farm to raise animals with respect and care.

https://www.facebook.com/BABRabbits/

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Re: I'm trying to identify breeds but they all look the same

Post Number:#21  Unread postby mygoldendoe » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:48 pm


Hey thanks for the link!!
Yeah when I'm ready to keep any for breeding later on I was gonna use my NZ to compare the growouts too.

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