Hybrids Not Growing as Fast as Expected

I have an 8 week old litter (turning 9 weeks on the 19th) and they are hardly growing. The doe is a wonderful cali and the buck was a large meaty American Chinchilla. I have heard good things about using AmChins and Cali's for a good meat hybrid but these babies seem to not be growing. It was a litter of 10, there are 8 left after one escaping and another going to a new home. I grabbed the fattest one and weighed him today and he was just barely 2 pounds. They are absolutely tiny. But they have fat, almost bloated bellies.

This is only my second litter and I am wondering if the bloated bellies could be a sign of something wrong. They eat like maniacs and their poops seem perfect. For a while, when our work schedules were crazy we were only able to go out to see them two times a day and they probably weren't getting as much food and water as they should have been. Could that be the reason they are so small? Could there possibly be a health issue?

What do you feed them?
Do you feed them rations with a 15-16% protein content? Lower?
What are your breeders weights?
Do you know how fast your breeders gained weight when they were young?
Did the doe provide sufficient milk in the first few days?

I feed them Manna Pro. I believe it is around 16%. Plus hay and some occasional fodder and forage (fresh grass clippings and dandelions). I bought the doe as a proven breeder so I am not sure about her background. I would say she is nearly 10 pounds but need to weigh her to verify. And yes the doe provided good milk to every single kit. They had pretty fat bellies as kits.

If they are being free fed pellets and still look this way, I would think parasites, either worms or cocci.

alforddm":14vi8fug said:

If they are being free fed pellets and still look this way, I would think parasites, either worms or cocci.

Click to expand...

Hmm well that would surely suck. What would some other signs be? Their poops seem perfect. Lots of hay when you break them open. No mucus-y poops or anything. They seem to eat and drink a normal amount. If this is due to parasites, what do I do about it? They seem perfectly healthy, minus being really tiny. Could it be that this particular pairing of breeders just resulted in smaller offspring?

I am wondering if I didn't feed them enough. I would go out to give them food twice a day and they always needed food and water every time I went out there. Could this have significantly stunted their growth? I feel bad and have since been feeding and watering them much more.

I don't let my growouts run out of food. I have fairly large feeders that I fill to the brim at least twice a day, and there's always at least a little left. And they get generous amounts of hay and fresh pickings from the yard and garden which they gobble down quickly. And I feel guilty if their water ever runs dry. I average just barely under 5 lbs in 10 weeks. I've never had an overweight slaughter. If I could stuff them quicker, I would.

Stephanie":969vky14 said:

I don't let my growouts run out of food. I have fairly large feeders that I fill to the brim at least twice a day, and there's always at least a little left. And they get generous amounts of hay and fresh pickings from the yard and garden which they gobble down quickly. And I feel guilty if their water ever runs dry. I average just barely under 5 lbs in 10 weeks. I've never had an overweight slaughter. If I could stuff them quicker, I would.

Click to expand...

That is what I am thinking (hoping) is the problem. I have since gotten better feeders and waterers so I reallyy hope that will solve the issue and that this won't happen again with any litters going forward.

It could just be that this pairing just didn't click. The growth rate of both parents plays a part, do you know anything about it?

I agree that bloated bellies sounds like disease

I'd cull the one that is most bloated and/or least muscle mass and closely inspect the liver, intestines and cecum for issues

I am wondering if I didn't feed them enough. I would go out to give them food twice a day and they always needed food and water every time I went out there. Could this have significantly stunted their growth? I feel bad and have since been feeding and watering them much more.

Click to expand...

This is could be the problem. They need to eat ALOT to get good growth. I have to completely fill a 5" j-feeder 2x a day to keep up with a six week old litter and their dam even then the feeder is often empty (especially in the morning). The older litters get their 7" j-feeder filled 2 a day and sometimes those are empty as well. I've been slowly switching over to even larger feeders (bass proB) so that I can keep up.

The bloat look could be due to malnutrition, which is why wormy animals often look bloated.

It kind of sounds like cocci, but if they have no other signs it could likely be the food, or genetics. Is this the first litter for this specific pair? If not, how did the first litter grow? If these are meat rabbits, maybe butcher one and look for signs of cocci or other parasites. Same for if you happen to lose any. I know it sounds bad but I was asked to do a necropsy on one of my kits when I lost it suddenly, unfortunately my dad buried it before I could. If I ever lose any more I plan to open it up just to see if I have cocci floating around my herd.

I hope the food increase helps and that was the only issue!

Thanks so much for your input. I am going to up their feed a large amount. I was having a lot of cage and feeder issues before. But I got a new cage with some slightly bigger feeders. I am also working from home now and I can check on their food much more often. I feel awful that I most likely am the reason they are malnourished. This is my first big litter. My only other litter was 6 babies and they grew out wonderfully. I guess I didn't think about how much more food it will be to feed four more babies. Hopefully this is the problem. I will try this for a week and if they gain a good amount of weight then I will just continue to grow them out, if there isn't decent weight gain by end of week I will open one up and see what's going on.

Also yes this is my first litter of Cali x AmChin. But the guy I got them from uses that cross all the time and was raving about how fast the grow out time is with them. I feel awful but this is a big learning experience and I will not make the mistake again. I am still slightly worried it is a parasite issue but with no other signs yet I will stick with it being a feed issue. Keeping my fingers crossed though! Thanks again guys!

Don't beat yourself up about it. We all make mistakes and your trying to do your best or you wouldn't have been asking questions. I think you've got a good plan going forward.

Please let us know how things turn out.

From what I read on this forum and other places the natural diet is a slower growth rate. Like the grass clipping and fodder. Ofcourse I just got started so if I am wrong please correct me.

Kenzierey":399bcvyo said:

Also yes this is my first litter of Cali x AmChin. But the guy I got them from uses that cross all the time and was raving about how fast the grow out time is with them. I feel awful but this is a big learning experience and I will not make the mistake again. I am still slightly worried it is a parasite issue but with no other signs yet I will stick with it being a feed issue. Keeping my fingers crossed though! Thanks again guys!

Click to expand...

Don't feel bad. I've found too, that just because it works in someone else's rabbitry doesn't mean it will work in mine. it's like the rabbits have a period where they have to make the transition to your practices. And then sometimes it does happen instantly. When I got my rabbits things just took off, but when I sold those same rabbits to a friend, she had problems breeding a doe I had just weaned off a litter.

There is a 'problem' within the AmChin breed- and that is really not your fault, or that of the person who told you to use one. Many AmChins are 'small' in that they never reach the required weight as senior animals to be registered. If you can find another pair, and make sure the doe is largeer for her breed, try again. keep records of which pairings produce the faster growouts, then develop your meat line from there.. you can breed the crosses together and still have your 50/50 genetic ratio.

Frosted Rabbits":1n5znytb said:

There is a 'problem' within the AmChin breed- and that is really not your fault, or that of the person who told you to use one. Many AmChins are 'small' in that they never reach the required weight as senior animals to be registered. If you can find another pair, and make sure the doe is largeer for her breed, try again. keep records of which pairings produce the faster growouts, then develop your meat line from there.. you can breed the crosses together and still have your 50/50 genetic ratio.

Click to expand...

Wow, really? I have never heard that. I follow a lot of people on instagram that breed AmChins for meat and they all rave about them.

This litter that I am having trouble with was sired by my breeders' older buck. I actually have not had a chance to breed MY AmChin buck with my Cali doe yet. My cali doe is pregnant with a rex buck right now, because I wanted to see what colors he would throw. But once she weans this upcoming litter I am going to breed her with my AmChin buck and try this mix one more time and make sure to get them the food they need. Hopefully I will have better luck with the next litter. I have seen great things from other people who have used this mix.

OFF topic and probably not the right place to post it, but I have looked through a lot of pictures on instagram of people's AmChin x Cali litters and the majority of their babies are the standard AmChin color or the dark gray, but some people have some white cali marked babies. It was my understanding that because that is recessive and the AmChin coat is so dominant, that all the babies should be gray. Is it possible that I could get some white cali-marked babies? All of mine are either light gray, dark gray, and some are dark with the darker points on their nose, ears and feet. But none are white (which is what I expected).

Sorry for my lack of proper terminology. I am not too well read on the subject of colors, markings, etc.. Hopefully I explained it clearly enough for you guys to be able to understand the question.

I breed AmChins and never had issues getting them to senior weight by 6 months :hmm: but it likely depends on bloodline

The chin colouring is dominant but if your stock secretly carries himilayan (AKA Califonia coloured) or REW then you could get white kits with darker points in the first generation but should certainly get them in the second generation because all kits with a Californian parent will carry that recessive colour

JMHO -- after you address the feed ration, and clean water availability issues,
-- I would try that exact breeding again--- when the young are just beginning to wander out of the nest box begin treatment with a coccidiostat [I use garlic chives, because it also helps with other parasites like ascarids , but CORID, or other coccidiostat, or a coccidiocide will work ] -- make sure your cages are kept clean, --so the young rabbits don't eat too much of the mom's infected poop, [or lick it off of their feet while cleaning themselves] -- it is possible that the genetic pairing didn't work, -- but-- it would very be important for a rabbit producer to know if a residual cocci problem exists in the rabbitry, and begin a proactive advance treatment plan-- [before a major flareup and mass die off of young rabbits makes it unavoidably obvious] -- again JMHO...