Back again,.. *tomorrow, the day that never comes*

Well after a long hiatus I am back. Had a lot going on. Still do but a little better managed for now. Got some sheep and been busy working on things. Putting up fence and clearing overgrown pastures takes a lot out of ya.

Anyways...

I have a black Silver Fox buck. For those who may remember, he is the same one that I have had. And I have a Californian doe. She is the only one left of the lot I picked up in the summer at the auction. She is actually pretty nice. Not as big as some calis but she has come around to me and isn't nutty like a few rabbits I have had over the few years since I began.

Well the short version is I thought the buck was sterile. I gotta find his pedigree in a box here, in a notebook.. somewhere.. I believe he was 4 or 5 when I got him and that was about two years ago. so he is 6 or 7 years old. I was going to keep him around as a pet or pet him out to my sister who was contemplating a pet rabbit for a while.

The buck has bred the doe no less than 30 times. With no litters.

Until now of course.

I must have gotten busy with something because I never wrote down the breeding :evil: So sure enough this morning I go out to do chores and there is a baby on the ground.. and another.. and another..
She had 4 babies that I found on the ground. she didn't have much hay and had eaten it all and the cage didn't have a nest. the kits would have easily wiggled around and fallen from the cage. even if they had managed to not fall out I rather doubt she would have figured out to try and huddle over them even just on the wire. Slim as the odds of them surviving that either as it was chilly last night.

I had to go somewhere this morning and when I got back this afternoon there was no more babies in the nest I gave her. Darn She had made a decent little nest and pulled a decent amount of fur. I palpated her to double check. No kits.

I did some rearranging of the cages. Put both in the big cage (5ft long, 2ft high, 30in deep) and hung around doing some cage cleaning and yard stuff fiddling around. They bred a few times. I finagled with her a couple times to get her to sit still for the buck when he was starting to get run ragged a bit. In total I saw them breed 8 good fall offs over more than a half hour.
I am going to go back out here in a while and check on them. If they keep getting along I will leave them together until near she is due this time. If not I can easily separate them again.

I set up a shelf, two boxes for them to hide in (both they can jump up and sit on), two water bottles, two feed bowls,....

If things go well I am going to just keep going with these two. I'm sick of buying rabbits that turn out to be crap. Probably just take my other cages too and build into a cage colony like I have doodled up before. Right now its just a matter of seeing if they will stay getting along and if they do find a permanent place to put the cage colony together. Where the cage is now is not a good spot permanently but it works for now.

If that all does happen I will at minimum keep the best buck and doe from the next litter. The doe would probably stay in colony and the buck would be in a single cage next to the colony, but not able to fight or breed, until he is big enough. That will take care of my buck problem hopefully.

From there I would *ideally* want to get a litter from the daughter back to the SF buck, but I rather doubt that happening. If not I would just keep on with the cali, and daughter and son from the crossing litter.

cali x SF/cali buck = 75% cali, 25% SF
SF/cali doe x SF/cali buck = 50% SF, 50% cali

If I am not that happy with the breeding I will keep an eye out at the auction. I am at the point that I wouldn't mind bringing home a nice looking buck, keeping him in quarantine a while, breeding him, and taking him back to the auction or eating him. Yes, I know the disease possibilities with that.
I am waiting to hear from a person I sold rabbits to a while back if they know anyone who would have a dutch buck for sale. I wouldn't mind getting a dutch buck and keeping two does from the cali/SF litter(s) and crossing that way. I really liked my dutch.

I will be adding pics later. I don't really have any at the moment of the two I have now.
Hope everyone else has been well! I cant wait to catch up reading some threads!

hopefully you will get another batch of kits in a month and be something that you can keep back.

Welcome back by the way.

Thanks! good to be back! I am removing myself from most of the rabbit related facebook groups I have been in because I went back to check in and read up there and none of them are the same anymore. too much drama. Think I will just stick to here and the one colony rabbits group!

On the bright side I am hoping that she took and has more than 4 kits. It just occurred to me this evening to flip her over and see how many nipples she has. I don't remember if I had checked her before or not. definitely one of the things I am going to look at in litters in the future for keepers!

and the amount of kits may be the doe or the buck. I did get a crazy litter of 13 out of him and my nz/Flemish doe but that was nearly two years ago his last litter. he had 8, 10, and 13 with that doe.. I think a litter of 4 that the other mutt doe at the time didn't make a nest.. and I wanna say he had another litter of 7 with a different doe.
but he is getting to be a bit of an old man now for a breeder buck so I wont be too upset if he can only kick out a few small litters before he cant give me any at all.

Welcome back, ohiogoatgirl!

Hoping your rabbits give you a nice litter next month!

Thank you Maggie. Very glad to be back. I have missed it.

They seem to be doing ok. That first evening I was a bit worried I would have to rearrange again back to how they were before and keep them separated. at least until I can put in the full cage colony. But they seem to have calmed down. They aren't to the both sitting and chilling together comfortable. but the doe isn't hiding in the one hiding spot and grunting when the buck came by.

plus the shelf and on top of the one hidey will only hold one rabbit. so either of them could be up on those and be away from the other.

trying to figure out where the cage colony would be good at for permanent building. want to find the best spot wind and weather wise. then thinking having to get out there at least once a day and minimum twice a day in winter. then thinking I don't want to have to drag forage from far away the whole time, I want to be able to have forage close that I can grab quickly when I don't have time for big forage cutting. Which I want to do a lot of through the growing season.
And on a related note I decided on a bank in the yard to clear and plant heavily with stuff completely for the rabbits. so will have to see if I can get it in well and figure out a bit of fence or something to keep the deer from chomping it all. More rambling about that in another thread I started in natural feeding section. I would love to know what yall think. pasture-mix-what-do-you-think-t29696.html

Meanwhile I dug the first swale in paddock #1 for the sheep. This one is 20ft long and the shortest. I will have probably two more to do in that paddock. then plant them. then mulch them.

Hopefully I will get some pics of things tomorrow before I head to moms house for Easter.


side note, I am wondering what coloring I will get from them. from what I could tell of the kits they were dark. I know from the bucks previous breeding with my past does that I had lots of gold tipd steel and even a gold tipd opal in one litter.
the doe is chocolate pointed cali. and the buck has some blue in his pedigree, mostly black, and one or two whites. be very interesting to see if I could manage a father x daughter.. if the buck makes it that long. but even so a brother x sister and son x mother will also be very interesting to see color and pattern wise what might happen.

__________ Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:15 am __________

Cali doe, 'Sassy pants'... original I know but she was very snobby for a long while and ended up the only doe of the lot I'd bought at the auction. it is fitting still. she will let me pet her but she doesn't care for it most of the time and wants left alone. "Serve me my meal! Lowly servant!" hahaha.


SF buck, 'Mr Rabbit'... I know again with the naming. He really is a total wall flower and just did not have anything to help me name him. I always let them decide their names based on their actions or character, and sometimes just their coloring. But Mr Rabbit doesn't want to bother anyone and he is fine with being fed and watered, a petting if I can spare it, and then leave him to his bland self.
He is my cuddle buddy though He doesn't seem to care either way but he will just set and be held and pet if I feel like cuddling. He is probably my favorite of all the rabbits I have had for being a cuddle buddy.


The full cage at the moment. this one and two others this size will go to making the final cage colony.


you can see with the wood slats inserted as a shelf there is plenty of room for shelves when I have the colony fully put together. they also get on top of the metal nest box you can see there. although only Sassypants seems to get on the wood slat shelf.


Sassypants tolerating Mr Rabbit... Every time I check on them now I can only think of Pride and Prejudice.. "So what do you suggest? To encourage affection," says mr darcy... "Dancing. Even if one's partner is barely tolerable." responds Elizabeth... Sorry, not sorry! My pride & prejudice addiction still runs deeper than my rabbitosis!


and here we have the Sass monster giving in after a very careful sneaking up by the sweet gentleman for a meal together. Hahahahaha.


and for those interested I am going to have pics of the garden areas (with lots of rabbit forage) pics posted in my other thread in natural feeding, already linked to previously.

__________ Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:53 am __________

well I palpated on Friday and I'm 80% sure I felt kits. Going to help my mom with computer troubles of her elderly clients tomorrow... Should be fun... But when I get home looks like box cleaning, poop pile shoveling, and palpate her again to double check. If so she is due the 21st!

*** I palpated her today (4/11, day 18) and feel babies. guessing a good 6 or so. gonna keep everything crossed. At this point I hope that however many she has that she can feed them good. I will happily go for a small litter that is fat then too many and skinny.

__________ Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:50 pm __________

Went to the local auction today. Came home with a promising little black dutch doe. If she fills out and calms down she will stay on for breeding. got her in the quarantine cage now.
Very nearly came home with three little piglets! But, alas, people bid the price way up and all the piglets went for more each than the grown pigs went for! so no piglets for me.... yet....

SassyPants is due this weekend. any time from Friday to Monday. Guessing by feeling her that she has 6 in there. she looks round though and definitely full of babies when I felt her belly yesterday. could surprise me with some more. I'll be happy with whatever she has long as she feeds em well and takes care of em. <br /><br /> __________ Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:56 pm __________ <br /><br /> Today is the due date. No babies yet. She was with the buck up until yesterday. I setup the smaller single cage again and put him in there because he was really pestering her trying to breed her. I didn't want to stress her out or chance her injuring him. she isn't a mean rabbit but she isn't uber friendly 'pet me, pet me' either and definitely earned her name.

She is definitely close though. she is lookin like a fat roaster pig, just needs the apple in the mouth. Thinking she may actually have more than 6 in there now.

I am thinking she will have em tonight. It is supposed to get cold tonight so unless I conk out early (unlikely lol) I will sneak out and have a quick peek later on tonight. just in case.

:good-luck:

*sigh*, I'm too waiting for my Red Shrew to kindle, today it's day 30, was at the hutches 3 times last night, it got really cold and windy yesterday.
My other young doe ( 11 months, first timer, no name earned yet) would have been due a few days ago, but nothing, she made such a pitiful racket yesterday when I put her to the buck that I put her in an extra hutch overnight so she has a little respite from my Black Fury pestering and humping her, and try again today....

she had 7! finally! she had them between noon and about 7pm. she had em all cleaned good and in her cozy nest. she didn't pull much fur and since its still chilly at night I added some from the jar. I had saved as much of her pulled fur from her 'oops' litter and put it in a jar. glad I remember to do those sorts of things!
They were all fed, fat and wiggly.

they are all dark. so obvious possibilities for color are: black, gold tipd steel, and black false self (steel carrier).

__________ Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:01 pm __________

Babies are doing good. momma's attitude didn't change at all. I was kind of expecting her to become a little more friendly after having a litter. That's what pretty much all of my past rabbits did. Not her lol too stubborn!
Kits all look solid black right now.

__________ Sun May 01, 2016 11:52 pm __________

going by the dutch doe being 2m/o she will be nearing breeding age about mid june. she better get to eating. she still doesn't eat hardly anything. at least I can tell she is eating a decent amount of grass and forage now.
I really want her to fill out nicely so I can add her to my little mutt breeding line.

Sassypants is doing well. still not friendly and doesn't want pets other than half a second and she is done. but she is feeding this litter well and seems to be in quite good condition. I am going to try and figure up something to stick the rabbits in to weigh them. I have an old milk crate but I don't know I could keep em still for a moment to read the hanging scale. so will have to see.
I am going to give her a while, and I need to make sure I have the other cage ready for the litter to be moved to at weaning. but right now I think I will breed her back on the 11th. that will be 2wks post kindling and hopefully not be crazy hot.


in other news.. I have no idea why I thought the buck was older.. :shock:
found the notebook with his pedigree! he was born early December of 2012! he is only 4y/o!
that is good though. he should have at least another two years in him for breeding to get me settled in my breeding plan.


so if I get in another good breeding with the cali doe I probably wont breed again until probably august. unless this summer turns out as one of those weird crazy cool summers.. which I am rather doubting.
but by that time I should have things figured out and a couple keeper does back from Sassypants. if they out-do her with their litters I won't keep her back still, I'll just continue on with the daughters and breed back to Mister Rabbit, and of course seeing how the dutch and litter(s) do if she shapes up.
if the dutch doe shapes up and I keep a couple from her I can definitely see having her separate and seeing how she does bred back to a son of hers. see how the dutch pattern turns out and colors etc. if that pans out I can definitely see how this could end up as two lines.

__________ Wed May 04, 2016 12:10 am __________

pondering.. as I am often apt to do..

my current idea for things until fall:

*depending on how this litter grows up, probably keep the biggest doe kit

*as long as Sassypants is in good condition (which she is so far) then I think I will breed her back at two weeks post kindling date and she would be due early June

*depending on how that litter grows as well in comparison to the first litter will be interesting. don't think I will keep a doe unless one does awesome and seems better than the doe kept from the first litter.

*the dutch doe will be about hitting breeding age mid June. the kept back doe from the first SFxCali litter will be about hitting breeding age mid August. I would probably hold breeding again until mid August at least. I don't like hot rabbits that don't want to eat.

*I want to breed the keeper doe kit and breed her back to the SF buck. litter would be 75% SF, 25% Cali. At this point if the litters turn out really nice I can see keeping the best buck kit and one or two does. Then keep whoever of the does is doing the best. breaking it down into a trio or quad set.

*dutch doe x SF buck = 50/50 litter, keep best doe and best buck (doe-A, buck-A)
dutch doe x buck-A = 75 dutch / 25 SF, keep best doe (doe-B)
doe-B x buck-A = 62.5 dutch/ 37.5 SF
.....this is just kind of a general idea. I know this will probably go on based entirely on how the 50/50 litter grows out. if they turn out crappy then this wont go anywhere as it is. or I could keep a nice doe from the litter and add her in with the cali cross bunch and see how things go.
like a 50/50 cali/SF buck on a 50/50 dutch/SF doe? ...50% SF, 25% cali, 25% dutch...

~~ETA my camera batteries should be fully charged tomorrow and I will get pics of everyone. the kits all seem to be self black. no lighter bellies etc or shading variation to tip off on turning out steel of some sort. and false self is possible, darn steel! hoping if it is in there hiding that it will pop out to play early so I can find it.

Glad this is going well. I wish you lived closer to me. I am overloaded with kits right now. 61 kits so far. I'd be more than happy to give you some angoras.

Pics from today

__________ Fri May 06, 2016 9:21 pm __________

more...

__________ Fri May 06, 2016 9:33 pm __________

...mooore...

__________ Fri May 06, 2016 9:42 pm __________

...and finally the last of the pics...

__________ Mon May 09, 2016 12:20 pm __________

I was back and forth on breeding back Sassypants. Sunday (yesterday) is 2wks for the litter. She is looking very well and the litter is growing well. I think if anything she seems to have put on some extra body size since the 'oops' kindling.

So today I bred her again. They both seemed happy to get the job done and Sassypants wasn't even that sassy about it. Got 6 covers within about ten minutes. This evening I will probably put them together again just to make sure. **ETA: now total of 11 covers.

Due date June 8. So that should give me some time before it usually gets icky hot here. Then I don't plan on any more breeding until August or September depending on if it is still hot.

I am curious how Sassypants will do through the next litter. If she could keep up a quick breed back or not. Although I think I will continue with not breeding for the hotter months. It's no use to have litters that are lanky and no one wants to eat with the heat etc.

Love the kits!!! Too cute!

On Monday I sexed the litter (litter #1) and there was 4 bucks and 3 does. Decided to take the bucks to the auction and feed out the does. If there is one worth keeping I will of the does, the other two will go to freezer. two are definitely looking better than the other doe. fingers crossed one of them will be nice enough to bother keeping.

Last night was day 31 for Sassypants and she kindled around 11pm. Geez she had 9 and 4 of them are clearly runts! I don't know what is up with that. Going to have to watch for that with the line breeding I am planning on doing, I don't want to have a lot of that happening!

I'm thinking I will wash that chicken bulk feeder and put it in their cage. I don't really like that it takes up so much space but it is a big cage.

I still need to get a spot figured out for sure to move the cages to and really setup. I am looking at a spot near the old barn (not the one they are against right now). So we will see because I have to figure it out before the end of the month or I will be in trouble with cage space!

I really don't think the dutch doe is going to stay. I considered bringing her back to the auction on Monday with the bucks but didn't want to cram her in the carrier with them. if we go this coming Monday though I will be bringing her. she is not personable at all and has zero interest in letting me so much as touch her let alone actual handling. Plus she hasn't put on any size at all and is not worth keeping on to try breeding in August.

Oh and at the auction on Monday I came back with three mini rex looking young rabbits. I broke even with the ones I brought in to sell.. oh well.. I am really not sure what is up with them because they have.. 'rex like fur'.. I have had mini rex and these gals (all three does yay!) are really wonky looking and feeling fur.
It feels soft like rex but none of them is truly rex when you look closely at all. and they all look a bit curly like the astrex thing.
one of them is black and grey-ish because the fur is weirdly.. thin..? I don't really know how to explain it at all.
one of them is a gold tipd steel and has the best density fur. while the fur is soft and does stand up it isn't very rex-y looking at the fur. the back of her neck is actually bald. I am really thinking she may have that balding gene.
one of them looks like a nice black but looking closely has gold tipping as well. this one looks the best and has the best rex-y fur.

Is that typical of rex crosses with the fur quality?
If they don't feed up they will go to the freezer. I kind of just really want to see if the one decent looking one could be a decent crossing doe. lol. rabbitosis aquirosis strikes again!

__________ Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:22 pm __________

well lost one of the smallest kits in the new litter. the next smallest kit I am not betting is going to be alive in the morning. I don't like tiny kits. I don't like loosing the poor tiny kits.

on the bright side the three big/normal size kits are fat and sassy. And the four little kits are fat and well fed, more than I was expecting. I was kind of expecting to find at least two or three of the smallest kits not living today so ya never know.

ETA: the tiny unfed kit was gone and wedged weirdly along the side of the nest. thankfully the next smallest kit has a big fat belly along with the others. I guess litter of 7 is the magic number for this doe.

__________ Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:58 pm __________

auction day again. took in a truckload of square bales, the dutch doe, and the two kittens I am trying to give away. no luck on the kittens. darn rabbit sold for a dollar, which is what I paid for her so I am out on what I put in feed. I guess that's the good side of her not eating much is that at least I am not out more in feed.

we got a decent price on the bales. could've been higher but our bales aren't pretty green things so we never expect the higher prices. oh well, could have gotten less for them so could be worse.

there was tons of rabbits there today compared to the usual amount. I was going to be a good girl and not bring anything home... yep... ya right!
but what I did bring home is a real big cali buck and he's gotta weigh at least 10lbs! big guy! so when august rolls around I will breed the new cali buck to the cali doe and see how that goes. and breed the SF buck to his daughter(s) whichever I decide to keep. then seeing how those litters go I might keep em both a while longer or I will keep the one who ends up with better litters.

__________ Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:41 pm __________

litter #2 is doing well. the biggest kits are hopping out of the nest and around the cage already. They are 16 days old. This is the first litter that I've ever had ALL of the kits opened their eyes on the same day. that morning I fed sort of quickly because someone was picking me up to go to town. when I got back I showed them the rabbits (bc its my friend and she eats rabbit too) and there it was EVERY kit's eyes were open! :shock: not a single half peeper before that!

the three does from litter #1 are doing very well. two have a bit low and small shoulders but are fair otherwise, and the third is clearly more heft to her and immediately noticeably better shoulders. I will probably only keep that one doe of them.

also THEY ARE SILVERING! I was kind of hoping because I like the silvering. And looking at their fur it is clearly not regular fur, I noted before about the odd faint color/shade oddity and the fur has two lengths identical to the SF buck father. well they are starting to silver. most noticeable is on the underside of the tail and its slowly peppering in the rest of the fur.
the better of the three young does also happens to have the most silvering so far :mrgreen: Needless to say I am SOOOO IMPATIENT for August/September to get here so I can breed her back to the SF buck and see what I get.

The rex-like rabbits from the auction were weird and I had them in a tote in the bathroom. yup sure enough they start sneezing. they were dealt with soon as possible. no room for messing around with that nonsense!

and I am VERY HAPPY to report that there was this lovely enormous cali buck that came home with me. I haven't had a chance to sterilize the carrier to try and weigh him but he has at least a pound or two on the SF buck! and he is very bulky and built like a nice cali meat-brick with a big ol' head and those adorable eyebrows :lol:

So I need to find names for the keeper doe and the new buck. I am wondering to start with themed names to keep track. suggestions welcome. Right now I am thinking names from the book series 'Clan of the Cavebear' (Jean Auel) and book 'Fever' series (Karen Mohening, sp?).

so come aug/sept or whenever it is decently cooler weather breeding will happen again.

sassypants(cali) x cali buck = pure cali litter

cali/sf doe x sf buck = 3/4 SF, 1/4 cali litter

depending on how those litters go I will decide things further. but I have several breeding ideas.

cali/sf doe x cali buck = 3/4 cali, 1/4 SF litter

cali/sf buck (litter #2) x sassypants(cali) = 3/4 cali, 1/4 SF litter

and with the SF buck's pedigree there is one white GG sire and a blue GGG parent (I was told in asking on one of the SF groups on FB from someone elses pedigrees related to mine). So with the 1/2, 1/2 back to the SF the colors possible?? And with breeding from there what colors I might have.

__________ Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:17 pm __________

8/10/16 UPDATE

sassypants- doing well. sassy like always. Hoping it cools off by the end of the month so I can breed her to the cali buck.

litter #1 does- nearing 16wks old. still the one doe looks the best. need to butcher the others along with second litter. SOOO impatient to breed her back to the SF buck! hoping to get something other than blacks lol!

litter #2- 9wks old. ended up with 5 bucks and 2 does. one buck looks promising but don't think I want to keep him. with my breeding ideas right now I don't really need him. the two does aren't anything special. I can definitely tell this litter isn't as big as the first litter. The heat really does suck the energy out of them as well as me!

cali buck- doing well. he thinned out a bit since I've had him. seems like it was just extra fat though. he seems healthy and still nice and meaty. Hahaha he is very impatient to have a girlfriend!

SF buck- doing well. Also impatient for a girlfriend! I thought he started to molt but didn't seem to happen. he was shedding a lot for like a week but that was it. thinking it may have just been the heat. everyone was shedding a bit more.

__________ Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:50 am __________

Pics finally not the greatest but it's too hot to bother with them a lot and I don't want to be out longer than I have to. Like walking through soup I tell ya!

__________ Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:05 am __________

*sigh* I have been putting off butchering. Firstly, it was too hot to be outside for any length of time. So also the second litter was noticeably smaller and slower growing because of it. Secondly, I just really don't like doing it. I thought with some incentive (like someone wanting to buy a couple) I would get it done... Well Today I work closing so I am making some food and getting the knife and bucket ready to butcher... *sigh* I feel like I am dragging myself kicking and screaming to do it.

But I have breeding plans and I need to cull and make space! So it is finally getting done.

The SF-cali does are looking wonderful and I am going to have a very difficult time deciding who to keep! and now I really want to keep two of the three to breed back to the SF buck. To increase the amount of kits and the amount of possible colors or oddities that might show up. Then I could cull the lesser rabbit anyways. But I don't want to pick from three nearly identical that I think look good. And selling rabbits is not an option with this area and the state of the auction buying.

**eta: of course everything changed today and wasn't even close to getting things together to butcher. Work Wednesday and off Thursday so we shall see what happens!

Have you bred the Calis yet?? I have been reading this with anticipation!!

Not yet. I have to butcher the rest of the other litters (except the one half SF doe) before I can breed the cali and the cali/SF.